CRIMES OF GRINDELWALD Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers)

SnoopyDances · Unread post by **SnoopyDances** » Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:25 pm

Can't wait to see the movie!

If you've seen it, post your review/comments here.

Ade3 · Unread post by **Ade3** » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:54 am

Ok ladies – I am just out of the cinema, had a calming down cup of tea and have found a quiet spot to type this. Trying to breath normally!

It is brilliant. There are flaws to be sure but none are with Johnny. He is stunning – multi-layered. Mainly quite still and understated, but at one moment seductive, the next kind, the next cruel and just the occasional (I think maybe only once) a flash of anger. He is so utterly convincing – so you’ve been told he’s on the dark side but the character brings people to him by speaking to their individual fears or senses of injustice.

I’ll try and do this in order more or less without giving any big spoilers away. The film starts and ends with him – the prison escape at the beginning is spectacular. He says nothing, in fact throughout the film he doesn’t over speak. When you next see him in Paris he moves with an air which is sort of mesmerizing. His closest followers are more in love with him than in fear, so it is different to Voldemort. He does this throughout the film – when he is winning people over he stands very close to them and speaks so softly. Women and men are very seduced – that is the best word. Then there are two brilliant scenes where he is shot in shadow/silhouette – one beautiful one where he is walking through the tunnel out to give his rally speech. There are loads of other scenes of him and shots linking him and Dumbledore.

Then the climax is the rally and he is outstanding. He carries the entire film from that point. The speech is just brilliant and then the fight after that incredible. You are at once totally with the people who go to him (and there are a few shocks here) and at one with the people who resist. Special effects are fantastic. Also cleverly they don’t over play this part, it isn’t too long.

The ending is beautifully done, it ends with him making the big reveal (you think you’ve had the big reveal – I’ll come back to that). He makes the reveal and then walks towards the camera, and the credits roll. Thank you super Rockstar.

My take on the reviews are that if you like Harry Potter you will like this. There are plenty of bits of HP history to keep you happy and things that will make you go – ‘oh wow – that family’. If you don’t like Harry Potter this will seem long winded nonsense and hence the snarky reviews

It is a little bit longer than it needs to be although I wasn’t bored once and my full cinema (at midday!) didn’t fidget. There is a big reveal (which you think is the big reveal but isn’t) which is a little confusing and I’ve just bought the book so I can read it properly. But the complaints about over complication and too many characters is just – well, are these people not very bright?

The criticisms of Newt’s character being annoying are just plain wrong. He is just charming throughout and the other characters are important because they end up falling into one of two camps.

There isn’t a weak performance in my view. Johnny is absolutely brilliant but his character is by far the most interesting and has the most work to do. Ezra Miller is wounded and desperate and you really feel for him. Jude Law makes a wonderful Dumbledore. He is utterly in love with Grindelwald and guiltily so because of what has happened. Grindelwald has a huge hold over him. Great female characters, good and bad.

I can hardly wait for next week when I see it again. I need to see it again. The rally scene I believe will go down as one of my all time Johnny favourites.

I will no doubt be back here writing more but I cannot urge you strongly enough to go and see it.

SdubLU · Unread post by **SdubLU** » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:47 pm

I just saw it a few hours ago and first had to calm down after seeing it before writing something here. All in all: I absolutely loved it!!! I can really just tell you that you should go and see it and I really just want to see the next part now, and not in 2 years...

Johnny was greeeeeat it is a fabulous role for him and he perfectly fits in this universe. He is surely evil, cruel, manipulative...but still fascinating and seductive, I looooove it! His acting is calm, not over the top, you don't see much of his style which you can see in many other movies (not saying that he is doing the same over and over....but this role is really extraordinary different!)

Johnny aside, now to the general movie.

Maybe first the negative things: I can see that one can argue that this movie hasn't moved the bigger plot that it supposed to go through all five movies forward a lot, but neither has the first one I would say and still I enjoy both movies. But one has to admit that somehow there is not really that much new stuff concering this, that you learn during the movie, but for me it is okay because it is still important stuff that is going on and important decisions are made, and of course there are revelations made!

Sadly, one of them for me as a potterhead is somehow really difficult, though, and the other one I'm not so sure what to think about:

► Show Spoiler

Also difficult for me is the appearance of a character of the potter books:

► Show Spoiler

But now after this criticism back to the good stuff (at least my favorites, besides Johnny because I mentioned this at the beginning):

I just can repeat what Ade wrote: I mean what's going on with the people complaining that it is too compilcated or complex? I don't see it and my mother who is not a big potter head also had no problems following it...For me it is just the right amount of story for the length of film.

There are beasts in it again, they are really cute and funny, some a little bit scary, and I like how one of my favorite beasts does something so important towards the end of the movie.
The story is well thought, I like how the charactes have all their decisions to make and how the audience gets to see it and, somehow, also like Ade wrote, can understand each single one no matter whose side they pick!

The soundtrack is great again, the whole movie is way darker than the first one but it fits the story and setting, the special effects and the use of magic are great, and it just all makes me so curious on how everything will evolve from there....

I think I could go on writing about it forever, but I will stop now, and maybe add something in the discussion, once some of you have also seen it and written down their thoughts. I'm also really curious what you think about the thing I kind of criticised in the spoilers....

SnoopyDances · Unread post by **SnoopyDances** » Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:27 pm

I saw the movie yesterday. It was an early showing on a Friday so the crowds were light. I'm sure the theater filled up for the later showings.

I enjoyed this one more than the first movie which is understandable. The first movie in any series mainly introduces the characters and the world where all the action takes place. It is very useful for setting up the following films...all of the unrest between muggles and wizards, not unlike the real world history of the 1920s. The second movie is definitely moving us closer to the Great Depression with a glimpse of World War II to come.

Hitler wrote Mein Kampf while in prison during the 20s. The comparisons are obvious and deliberate. Perhaps Rowling is suggesting that WWII wasn't really a war among muggles, but that the wizards had more to do with it.

I would say that Grindelwald's rally speech is his "Mein Kampf", where he details his thoughts and feelings, his political struggles with the Ministry of Magic and no-mags, his plea for peace while inciting war. Hitler was often described as a great orator and charmer that could convince people to do anything. Grindelwald is doing just that. Laying out his strategy, calmly and convincingly, for a more perfect wizardly world while making convincing arguments to follow him or else...Pretty heavy stuff.

Newt certainly has his hands full as he tries to reconcile his romantic interests, his friends' romance, Credence's troubled past/identity, his own relationship with his brother and his loyalty to Dumbledore. That's probably why some felt the plot was complicated.

And, I admit, at times I wish I had a spreadsheet to keep all of the characters and their relationships straight.

But I had the same problem with the Harry Potter movies, too, not having read any of the books.

I had no recollection of Nicolas Flamel for example.

As for the "big reveal", I think Grindelwald is telling Credence another lie. He values the powers that Credence possesses and needs those powers to battle Dumbledore because of the blood pact. He needs to control Credence and gain his trust and he does just that. In a similar vein, he told Queenie what she wanted to hear. Powerful, controlling people always tell others what they want to hear to gain trust, support, and even sympathy. (And if you think of HP, Dumbledore did the same thing to Harry...said just what Harry "needed" to know in order to bring back Valdemort so he could be destroyed...by the only person that could. Valdemort would have loved for HP to join his side to increase his own power, and, he too, manipulated Harry to bring him back.)

However, if Grindelwald did indeed tell Credence the truth, it could be a twist similar to Star Wars and the big "Luke's father" reveal.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the third movie brings. I think this one sets up the next phase quite nicely...a great depression of some kind. Then, I imagine, movies 4 and 5 being a two-part finale of epic proportions!

Anyone notice that Grindelwald escapes to Austria, where Hitler was born.

justintime · Unread post by **justintime** » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:41 pm

I don’t know if what I am going to go on about could be called a “review”, but I am so gratified to have had this particular film experience I need to share my thoughts with some living thing beside my yawning cat. Bringing no Potter knowledge (or baggage?) with me, I went to see COG for the first time (I can say with certainty, now, there will be at least one return) yesterday afternoon at the 1:00 pm showing; only about a third full. Johnny and Jude Law were the only “lead” actors in it that I’d ever seen in other projects. Johnny was the ONLY reason I was there.

My first reaction at the end was a deep breath and a soft “Wow!”. I was tempted to buy a ticket right then and there for the next showing. All the critics - top, bottom of the barrel, or otherwise - who found this film bloated, plodding, fractured, etc., well, I think those folks are just admitting what lazy, biased fools they truly are.

I absolutely loved this movie, this world - ALL of it, not just the extraordinary Grindelwald-scenes. It did not drag, there were no low points, it was definitely not overstuffed with superfluous characters or plot lines. It was captivating from the tense opening onward: maybe, ironically, because it was all so new to me, everything and everyone providing sometimes glorious, sometimes subtle, but always meaningful, details, enhancing or explaining something else - or someone - yet to come. For me, it was like this gigantic mystery puzzle with moving, shape-shifting pieces. Anything I didn’t understand or couldn’t place with respect to origination (e.g. all the clanking, shifting architecture, inside and out) I just chalked up to magic, took a quick breath and refocused. Ha! I really had to pay attention, close attention. What a treat! I missed some bits, but before a second viewing I will read the screenplay I just received Friday (and had not yet peaked!).

Lastly, I think this film was perfectly cast. Every actor is praiseworthy but, in all honesty, I don’t think it would be the same magnificent production without Johnny’s all out, consuming performance. He was, in my opinion, at his absolute best. He filled Gellert Grindelwald like no other character he’s taken on save Wilmot in The Libertine. Grindelwald’s oratory skills, dangerously soft-spoken persuasiveness, and irrepressible dark humor ( “So needy.”; “I hate Paris.”) are delivered by a master. Johnny, quite simply, is mesmerizing.

marija · Unread post by **marija** » Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:36 am

justintime, I've watched it three times already and I agree you in every aspect

moviemom · Unread post by **moviemom** » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:32 am

Not really a review, just my thoughts.

I have been looking forward to seeing this second installment of Fantastic Beasts since it was announced. I also have avoided reviews and the like as much as possible.
First off, a huge shout out to the amazingly talented Colleen Atwood because I loved the costumes. Textures and other details helped flesh out everyone's characters.
I experienced a rollercoaster ride of emotions ranging from amazement to humor, from glee to sadness. A number of details about the more important characters are filled in this time, for Newt, his brother, a few others, and of course, Grindelwald. To sum up, my husband and I enjoyed this film a great deal and I hope to have an opportunity to view it again in the cinema. Johnny is 110% on his game in this role, and I'm saying that instead of the usual 100%, that there seems to be an extra bit that pushes the role into IMO, Oscar territory. Not likely to be nominated because it's "just" a fantasy film, but who knows. He completely disappeared into this role and for once I can honestly say that Jack Sparrow never appeared in even the tiniest of ways. Often, critics like to say he can't shake Sparrow, but this role proves that he really can. As the movie progressed from scene to scene, I forgot it was Johnny in that beautiful costume because he was just THAT amazing. Oh, and I have to say that has utterly convincing and seductive in his speech and I probably would have joined him just like Queenie did.

Unread post by **Joni** » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:29 pm

!	Message from: Joni
	Just a reminder that you don't have to hide spoilers in the "spoiler box" because this topic is labelled with a Spoiler warning. Those not wanting to know can skip this topic until they have seen the movie.

jruoss · Unread post by **jruoss** » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:54 pm

I went to see this last night... Not only was I blown away by the film itself, but I highly recommend seeing the 3D version for those that can deal with 3D. It seemed completely appropriate for such a magic heavy movie. MIND BLOWING. Johnny is otherworldly as Grindewald.
I'm not going to bother offering analysis other than to say one could follow what was going on fairly well without ever having seen or read any of the Harry Potter stuff, though I'm sure it helps. I have just a couple "outside the story" musings instead. When I found out Johnny was going to be part of this universe, I did enough research to discover that Rowling had expressed interest in both Tim Burton and Terry Gilliam during the run of Potter movies. Obviously that didn't happen, and I think Yates is doing an incredible job with this series, but I couldn't help noticing some Burton/Gilliam connections, starting with Johnny Depp of course. Then there's Colleen Atwood, and the DP on both FB films so far is Philippe Rousselot, who worked on 3 straight Burton films, including CATCF. And the only other film that Johnny and Jude Law have both been in is The Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus, where they both play "through the mirror" versions of the same character. Can't help wondering if that occurred to either of them during the scene where Dumbledore is looking into a full length mirror at an image of Grindewald staring back at him, even though they weren't on set at the same time.
This was easily one of the most impressive movie going experiences I've ever had. Newt's love for all these outlandish creatures is just one through line that makes me feel the heart that pervades these stories.

Ruby Begonia · Unread post by **Ruby Begonia** » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:28 pm

My daughter, son and I all loved the film! It was beautiful in IMAX. I saw it again in 3D, which I also enjoyed a lot!

Warning: At my theater, the IMAX showing was preceded by not only the Aquaman trailer, but also a separate and very long (and dreadful) extended Aquaman trailer presented by Jason Momoa and the sea hag herself. I was so

I thought it spoiled FBCOG for me, but thankfully I forgot all about it once FBCOG started because, of course, it begins with Johnny, and Johnny is WONDERFUL from beginning to end!

At the end, I immediately wanted to see part 3!

I didn't find it confusing and enjoyed the characters' stories. Just like Harry Potter, the fate of a baby ( or 2; can't help but wonder if that baby who is killed off screen in the beginning will be significant in the future) is central to the story.

Lovely performances by the entire cast. Vinda Rosier did a lot with her limited screen time and dialogue, but I would really like to see her role expanded: gorgeous, mysterious, clever, dangerous, sexy woman! Abernathy is another talented Grindelwald henchman. Loved the part in the beginning where it's revealed MACUSA cut out Grindelwald's tongue, but then it turns out to be Abernathy, who gets a forked tongue replacement from G.

I love the way Johnny as Grindelwald intimately curls himself around Spielman in the coach before throwing him out. He does a similar thing with Credence. Silent character statements but, then again, is he just manipulating people to accomplish his grand scheme? Grindelwald plays everybody!

Overall, I'd rate the film at 80%, far above those

reviewers. The script had some wonderful moments but, overall, was a little beneath the talents and maturity of outstanding pros like Johnny, Jude and Eddie. Hope there will be a 3rd film and the story improves.

nebraska · Unread post by **nebraska** » Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:30 am

I saw the movie earlier this week. There were a handful of other people at the showing I attended. I watched it on a big deluxe screen. The scenery and costumes are wonderful! especially in that advanced format.

I am of an age where I don't appreciate the use of too many special effects.

Sometimes I started to lose the story in the special effects, but maybe it would be hard to really tell a story about wizards without using the tricks that are available to film makers today. Too often these days I feel like special effects are used for the sake of using them rather than advancing the story, but that wasn't the case with Crimes of Grindelwald. The special effects fit where they were placed in the film.

In many ways I liked the first Fantastic Beasts film better. The characters of Newt and Jacob and the sisters were being established in the first film so they were more carefully developed. I think in COG it was assumed we already knew them, and the lack of character development made the film seem a little shallow to me. Or maybe it was simply because Johnny Depp stole the movie! I may be biased, of course, but his portrayal of Grindelwald was so powerful it overshadowed everyone and everything else. He had an overwhelming presence -- all he had to do was walk onto the screen and he took my breath away. That mesmerizing persona was what made Grindelwald so dangerous.

I am eager for the next installment.

Unread post by **fireflydances** » Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:38 am

Saw the movie in the midst of a terrible rain storm. Frankly I was surprised there was anyone in the theater, but shockingly I almost didn't get a decent seat. So, it is retaining its popularity.

It was a wonderful film and I definitely want to see it again, this time in 3-D. Love the story line and the fact that I could see bits of Potter world as the story moved along. Loved all the characters and the comic bits with the fantastic animals. The pace was faster than I would have liked -- wanted to spend more time in each scene and I can see where others felt there was too much introduced. I wonder if any of it has to do with Rowling depending on a screenplay as opposed to having a book and screenplay? Very different mediums and yes, screenplay is faster pitched. Perhaps she is still adjusting to the limits of the screenplay? I do find myself wishing there was a book or books on Fantastic Beasts that I could curl up with. And no, reading the script won't do it for me.

What did I like best? Depp's full blown and masterful portrayal of Grindelwald. It was so full-throated, so compelling as though he grabbed the audience and shook it thoroughly. Very stage-like, and that makes perfect sense as Grindelwald was speaking to everyone in the coliseum. Honestly it was like watching an actor like Gielgud. Yes, I have always loved his performances and characters, but yes also, he has soared in this role. Maybe its because the character is evil but I feel a depth in this portrayal, as if it swings out of him, reduces watchers to stunned silence. Great performance.

Ade3 · Unread post by **Ade3** » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:10 pm

Saw it for the second time today with people who hadn't seen it and one who had managed to deliberately stay away from all spoilers - so the full shock at the end was just great (I watched her face). Loved it again, just wonderful but the rally is the absolute stunning stand out for me, the way he smiles as he entices people in - and then the bit afterwards, where he actions and deviousness leave Theseus, Nagini and Jacob without their loves. Oh and the last scene, his part patriarchal part almost sexual seduction of Credence is just amazing.

Completely trite point but I saw it at an IMAX and amongst the things I notice - the holes in Johnny's earlobes where his bling normally sits. Nice.

myfave · Unread post by **myfave** » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:38 pm

I was surprised this was only one page til I saw the movie. I was bored.. Johnny’s scene totaled maybe 10 minutes total. I almost fell asleep during the movies

myfave · Unread post by **myfave** » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:37 am

I wish I wwould have seen the first movie. Johnny was in the first movie?