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 Post subject: ATD Question #8 - The Beach
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:21 am 
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Chapter 9 – Camilla and Arturo drive to the Palisades – What is going on with these two? Why does she tease him so mercilessly?



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:08 pm 
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I can't decide ~ this scene seems like the usual adolescent teasing, only with the stakes ramped up pretty high, whereby the girl (Camilla) 'tests' her boyfriend (Arturo) to see if he's heroic enough...man enough...attentive enough...to satisfy/rescue her.
Trouble is, they're both so used to hitting below the belt (literally) and attacking each other where it hurts the most, the results are potentially violent...maybe, with these two, that was the whole point and purpose. (?)



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:11 pm 
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Isn't it a tribute to our healthier relationships, and our maturity, that we just don't get it?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:30 pm 
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fansmom wrote:
Isn't it a tribute to our healthier relationships, and our maturity, that we just don't get it?


Good point, fansmom. Could be she was testing him, Parlez, as she asked him after her antics in the waves, “Do you still like me?”



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:40 pm 
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fansmom wrote:
Isn't it a tribute to our healthier relationships, and our maturity, that we just don't get it?

I'd like to think of it that way, fansmom!! :cool: They really lost me here. :eyebrow: I had naively thought that maybe Camilla would turn out to be good for Arturo, that maybe she just had to work some things out... Then came her bizarre stint behind the wheel of the 1929 Ford roadster :freaked: and her fake drowning, and ...yeah, I just don't get it. :baby:
It struck me, too, Liz, that she was testing when she asked if he still liked her, but I couldn't help but think that I wouldn't have much respect for someone who did still like me after I'd done all that!! :mad:



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:36 pm 
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Nice one, famsmom!

I don't know. It seems to me that they both take attention seeking to a whole new art form.They both seem way too needy in that area. The fake drowning is just not funny at all. But I think she is testing him, as Parlez says. For me, it just starts to raise a few concerns about her mental health. And as for Arturo - I prefer his anger to him wondering if he could write a poem about it!



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:42 pm 
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I had to keep reminding myself, as I read ATD, that Arturo and Camilla are both very young. I am old enough to be Arturo's mother (well, not the mother of a 20-year old in the 1930's!).

Boy, if I were his mother, I'd have a thing or two to tell him!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:04 pm 
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Do we need to get out that rolling pin again, fansmom? :lol:
Actually I had to hand it to Camilla (in a twisted, sick sort of way) for her ability to harbor resentment and hostility toward Arturo for what he did to her at the cafe and get him back, big time, at the beach. In a way I thought he deserved it; why should she make nice when he'd been such a :censored: to her? But she went too far, which is par for the course with these two.



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:33 pm 
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Considering the history of their "relationship", nothing should surprise us, I guess. Camilla's behavior in the car was just really strange. It showed a crude side to her that I didn't find very attractive. But maybe each incident in the story is supposed to give us a piece of the personality profile. As to the fake drowning, I wasn't terribly shocked by that. It seemed almost playful, finally something that wasn't open insults! A bit of teasing. Although, Camilla did carry it a bit far, it would have been better if she had revealed her trick before Arturo was so convinced of her death. And it did put him in danger, since he was inexperienced with the ocean.

I hope it is ok that I don't like these two very much. :-/


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:28 pm 
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nebraska, you don't have to like them to discuss them. :cool: Was Camilla just trying to get him back for the way he had treated her? Her own little power play to show she could give as good as she got? Or just attention seeking as suec mentioned. That is a good point fansmom about them being young. Camilla probably didn't have much in the way of role models any more than Arturo did. It certainly is a bizarre way to show affection. :eyebrow:



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:40 pm 
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Parlez wrote:
Do we need to get out that rolling pin again, fansmom? :lol:
Tell you something else--I wouldn't let him near my daughter!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:03 pm 
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One word comes to mind: provocative. I think that's what these two 'kids' were doing ~ trying to provoke each other. Why? Who knows! But it was beyond teasing, IMO, and I'm not sure it had that much to do with being attracted to each other. I wouldn't put affection in the equation either. It was something else...running deeper in their mutually disturbed psyches.



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:10 am 
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Parlez wrote:
Do we need to get out that rolling pin again, fansmom? :lol:
Actually I had to hand it to Camilla (in a twisted, sick sort of way) for her ability to harbor resentment and hostility toward Arturo for what he did to her at the cafe and get him back, big time, at the beach. In a way I thought he deserved it; why should she make nice when he'd been such a :censored: to her? But she went too far, which is par for the course with these two.


Yes! I feel the same…..that she was trying to get back at him for his first visit to the Columbia Café. And I don’t blame her in the least. I’m not sure I would have responded that way, but I understand that she wanted to make a point. But at the same time, she knew he was interested because of all of his telegrams. I just think that she had a mean streak and was maybe mentally disturbed, as Suec pointed out. My only problem with that was that we see this through Arturo’s eyes. Can we trust him?



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:57 am 
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I agree with everything that has been said. One thought just hit me though, when Suec and Liz mentioned that Camilla might be mentally disturbed.
It is strange that we consider her mentally disturbed for being just like him.
That sort of back and forth trying to out do each other is usually a male competition thing or the way attraction starts in very young couples.



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:35 am 
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Liz wrote:
My only problem with that was that we see this through Arturo’s eyes. Can we trust him?


Good point, Liz, and one that had slipped my mind. Telling the story in first person gives us a close connection with Arturo's emotions and thoughts, it may be distorted because of that.


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