It is currently Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:43 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




 Page 1 of 2 [ 26 posts ]  Go to page
1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Happy Days Question #11 - Love
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:21 am 
JDZ Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:13 pm
Posts: 12514
Location: The Left Coast
Pg. 58. “Could Bebel be jealous of the attention I pay Mireille? That’s how I win a real place in my companions’ hearts. Their friendship pleases me, but embarrasses me, bothers me. I want to be free of all ties, emotionally blank. And yet love always remains a temptation, the only one left in spite of so much disillusionment. Perhaps the salvation of humanity lies in this inextinguishable desire, this stubborn belief in love. The coldest, most sorely tired of souls still cherishes the hope of loving again.”

Is this true about love?


Congratulations, Johnny, on your Golden Globe Nomination! :bounce:



_________________________________________________________
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:11 am 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:37 pm
Posts: 1428
:flashingheart: I think so!! :flashingheart:



_________________________________________________________
"I never wanted to be remembered for being a star."
Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:38 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:48 am
Posts: 1337
Location: Beyond the paradigm.
Yes, I fiercely want to beleive this. However, love is very difficult.



_________________________________________________________
“The scariest enemy is from within. Allowing yourself to be limited and conform to what you're expected to conform to.”~JD
Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:36 pm 
JDZ Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:13 pm
Posts: 12514
Location: The Left Coast
Depputante wrote:
Yes, I fiercely want to beleive this. However, love is very difficult.


Me too. Why is it difficult?



_________________________________________________________
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:44 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:30 am
Posts: 2503
Location: Colorado
Oh, yes! This is both Antoine's downfall and his raison d'etre!
It's the very thing he wants to avoid but, in the end, gladly embraces.
What's also significant to me, considering the end of the story and how he goes back to being his 'old' (pointless?) self is that the experience of love can be fleeting and brief; it doesn't necessarily have to grow or develop over a long haul of time or a shared history. It can happen just like that, like it did for Antoine with Mireille, and be gone as quickly as the next breath.

Sometimes I think we suffer because we want the experience of love to last. We get all caught up in a concern about its duration and then doubt its authenticity when it goes. If we could love in the moment, like Antoine loved Mireille on that seaside bench, we'd be better off, IMO.



_________________________________________________________
"Belay that! ...Do something else!" ~ Hector Barbossa
savvy avi by mamabear
Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:49 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:48 am
Posts: 1337
Location: Beyond the paradigm.
Liz wrote:
Depputante wrote:
Yes, I fiercely want to beleive this. However, love is very difficult.


Me too. Why is it difficult?


Because everyone has different thoughts and feelings about love. What makes a person love another? What makes Antoine love Mirielle, is something very different from what makes me love someone. Some people are more analytical, and love being analytical, therefore they love you because you give them the freedom they need to be analytical. Some people love to think that love will conquer all. And I love to think that, but it's not very realistic either.

I'm really happy for those who say they've found their soul mates, even Johnny. But look what he had to endure to find her. He's lucky because he's male, he has more time to find a soul mate.

But I'm not one of those lucky people, and I'm not going to sit around and wait for my soul mate to show up either. I've got to live my life. I'd be too old to have my own kids, take pride in my family etc, if I waited around for my sould mate. I do hope they show up after I'm finished raising my family though! :eyebrow:



_________________________________________________________
“The scariest enemy is from within. Allowing yourself to be limited and conform to what you're expected to conform to.”~JD
Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:04 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:37 pm
Posts: 1428
Part of what I was thinking when I came down on the side of believing in love as the "salvation of humanity" was brotherly/sisterly love.... making an attempt to love everyone in some way. This can also involve forming ties and being disillusioned, but usually works out pretty darn well, I think! Romantic love may be difficult to capture, but brotherly/sisterly love is always welcome. Antoine, however, seems unable to conjure up either for too long. :-/



_________________________________________________________
"I never wanted to be remembered for being a star."
Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:36 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:30 am
Posts: 2503
Location: Colorado
Depputante and Betty Sue ~ you guys bring up an excellent point, each in your own way.
When we think of 'love', and our ability to love and be loveable, we tend to think in terms of the physicality of it....are we/they attractive, alluring, desirable?
This is so ingrained in our culture that when we age and lose the physical attributes that made us attractive, alluring or desirable(think young, among other things) we tend to assume we are no longer loveable...and so it follows that we feel diminished at a very basic human level. This is something that causes a lot of depression and hopelessness amongst our elder population.
Romantic love is one thing, but it's not the only kind of love available to us. I'm not even sure it's the best kind of love available to us.
Thanks for making that distinction!



_________________________________________________________
"Belay that! ...Do something else!" ~ Hector Barbossa
savvy avi by mamabear
Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:49 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 8:15 pm
Posts: 21055
Location: near Omaha
I "loved" this quote! I am not sure exactly the author meant by it. For me it means that there is always hope and the human spirit withstands everything thrown at it.

I think love is difficult because you have to sacrifice ego for the sake of the loved one. I think romantic love is difficult because we are not Cinderella or Snow White -- "happily ever after" means accepting change and struggle and knowing that love itself changes, relationships evolve, as you go through life. I know my love for Mr nebraska has changed over all the years we have been together, and sometimes love didn't feel very good at all.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:06 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:28 pm
Posts: 3907
Location: Florida
Quote:
“Could Bebel be jealous of the attention I pay Mireille? That’s how I win a real place in my companions’ hearts. Their friendship pleases me, but embarrasses me, bothers me. I want to be free of all ties, emotionally blank. And yet love always remains a temptation, the only one left in spite of so much disillusionment. Perhaps the salvation of humanity lies in this inextinguishable desire, this stubborn belief in love. The coldest, most sorely tired of souls still cherishes the hope of loving again.”

The simple answer is Yes.
However, I never take the easy way out. First there are different kinds of love. My first impulse is always to think of romantic love. There is the love for your children, love of your parents. Love for friends, and a love for the human race. All of us have them all in different degrees.
Antionne seems to be talking of love for his friends here. He seems a little lacking in the love for his children and the romantic kind.

On yesterdays thread about Mirielle I sort of got into this. Here it is:

I really wanted to see something positive that Antionne got from actual feelings for Mirielle. The closest I got was when he threatened to leave her behind on the bench after getting tools from the trunk to open her winkles. He actually feels tenderness, true love, watching her trying to eat on the bench in the snow. He says he never would have really abandoned her, because he held her life in his hands, and it is worth more than anything. That was his last thought before taking her back to the hotel the night she died.

I don't think his love was romantic but the love of her as a person, a friend, and a fellow human being.

This is Antionne's one statement that lets me think there might be hope for him yet :
Perhaps the salvation of humanity lies in this inextinguishable desire, this stubborn belief in love.



_________________________________________________________
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
Offline
 Profile WWW  
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:28 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:53 am
Posts: 5355
Location: Missouri, USA
Hi Lizbaba, yes I think that's true. Love in all it's forms is very powerful, and I do believe that without it, we as human beings would have probably done away with ourselves.

Live in Depp
Boo



_________________________________________________________
"With this hand I will cup your.... Oh goodness no!"~~Victor Van Dort

"The theater is my drug, and my illness is so far advanced that my physic must be of the highest quality."~~John Wilmot
Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:28 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:28 pm
Posts: 3907
Location: Florida
Parlez said:
Quote:
Sometimes I think we suffer because we want the experience of love to last. We get all caught up in a concern about its duration and then doubt its authenticity when it goes. If we could love in the moment, like Antoine loved Mireille on that seaside bench, we'd be better off, IMO.

Romantic love is one thing, but it's not the only kind of love available to us. I'm not even sure it's the best kind of love available to us.
Thanks for making that distinction!

Parlez, You are have said some very profound truths here.

Depputante said:
Quote:
I'm really happy for those who say they've found their soul mates, even Johnny. But look what he had to endure to find her. He's lucky because he's male, he has more time to find a soul mate.


You make a very good point that love does not always come on time or is fair. It is just like life in general. Some get lucky and things happen and others either make them happen or make do if they don't.



_________________________________________________________
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
Offline
 Profile WWW  
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:00 pm 
JDZ Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:13 pm
Posts: 12514
Location: The Left Coast
Parlez wrote:
Depputante and Betty Sue ~ you guys bring up an excellent point, each in your own way.
When we think of 'love', and our ability to love and be loveable, we tend to think in terms of the physicality of it....are we/they attractive, alluring, desirable?
This is so ingrained in our culture that when we age and lose the physical attributes that made us attractive, alluring or desirable(think young, among other things) we tend to assume we are no longer loveable...and so it follows that we feel diminished at a very basic human level. This is something that causes a lot of depression and hopelessness amongst our elder population.
Romantic love is one thing, but it's not the only kind of love available to us. I'm not even sure it's the best kind of love available to us.
Thanks for making that distinction!


Just when I thought we couldn't get any heavier.....but I'm not complaining, just commenting.

I'd also like to comment on romantic love vs. the love for a soul mate. I think they can be or are one in the same (if you are lucky enough). And I think that finding a soul mate can lead to attraction and desirability. At least for Antoine, age doesn't seem important. I wonder if Laurent has experience with this somehow. I would like to know if this is common.


Parlez wrote:
Sometimes I think we suffer because we want the experience of love to last. We get all caught up in a concern about its duration and then doubt its authenticity when it goes. If we could love in the moment, like Antoine loved Mireille on that seaside bench, we'd be better off, IMO.


We might be happier, methinks. But I don't think it is human nature. It is very ingrained in us. And that is what keeps marriages together. And that is a good thing, generally speaking.



_________________________________________________________
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:04 pm 
JDZ Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:13 pm
Posts: 12514
Location: The Left Coast
gemini wrote:
Depputante said:
Quote:
I'm really happy for those who say they've found their soul mates, even Johnny. But look what he had to endure to find her. He's lucky because he's male, he has more time to find a soul mate.


You make a very good point that love does not always come on time or is fair. It is just like life in general. Some get lucky and things happen and others either make them happen or make do if they don't.


Unfortunately, I think that is the case, although I would like to believe that there is a soul mate out there for everyone and that eventually they will meet.



_________________________________________________________
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:32 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:28 pm
Posts: 3907
Location: Florida
Just to lighten things up a bit....
I think sometimes you meet a true love :cloud9: in the wrong time in your life and things don't always work out as they do in the movies. :-?
I would really like to think that there is still a soul mate out there but am wondering what I will see in such and old dude?
:lol:



_________________________________________________________
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
Offline
 Profile WWW  
 
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 2 [ 26 posts ]  Go to page
1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


phpBB skin developed by: John Olson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group