Inamorata Question #21 - Walter

by Joseph Gangemi

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DeppInTheHeartOfTexas
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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:57 pm

suec wrote:
DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:I keep going back and forth with each arguement because each one has merit and faults! :perplexed: So for now I am firmly and squarely on the fence...


What did I say - that I had climbed down from it? Well, I think I am back on it again. See, I definitely agree with theresa's take on it. Very much so. I just can't see how she did it. Perhaps Pike is the accomplice; after all, he translates for Finch, and is perhaps the least likely suspect in some ways because of his apparent loyalty to Crawley.
And then I return to the idea that it doesn't matter what the explanation is, because I think it is really about what is inside the characters. Also, because it is something that can't really be proved or disproved, as it really does come down to belief in the end.


The problem with the multiple personality (which was what I originally thought too and am not giving up on) is the physical manifestations (the clock, the pigeon, etc.) which would require an accomplice. That would mean that "Mina/Walter" would have to be in contact with one of the others in the house as her/his accomplice. Not climbing down from that fence yet...
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Unread postby SweetSam » Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:05 am

I still don't think that Walter is a manifestation of a multiple personality, because I don't think a second personality can be controlled to come and go as the main personality wills it to. :mort2: :mort3: Wouldn't the other personality come out at unexpected times?

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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:22 am

SweetSam wrote:I still don't think that Walter is a manifestation of a multiple personality, because I don't think a second personality can be controlled to come and go as the main personality wills it to. :mort2: :mort3: Wouldn't the other personality come out at unexpected times?


That thought occurred to me too, SweetSam. :eyebrow:
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -

Wow! What a ride!

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Liz
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Unread postby Liz » Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:41 am

DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:
SweetSam wrote:I still don't think that Walter is a manifestation of a multiple personality, because I don't think a second personality can be controlled to come and go as the main personality wills it to. :mort2: :mort3: Wouldn't the other personality come out at unexpected times?


That thought occurred to me too, SweetSam. :eyebrow:


Do we know this for a fact? Aren't there certain situations that trigger the personality to appear?
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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:43 am

Liz wrote:
DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:
SweetSam wrote:I still don't think that Walter is a manifestation of a multiple personality, because I don't think a second personality can be controlled to come and go as the main personality wills it to. :mort2: :mort3: Wouldn't the other personality come out at unexpected times?


That thought occurred to me too, SweetSam. :eyebrow:


Do we know this for a fact? Aren't there certain situations that trigger the personality to appear?


That's possible, but I'm not sure it's controllable much of the time? :-?
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -

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Unread postby Liz » Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:56 am

DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:
Liz wrote:
DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:
SweetSam wrote:I still don't think that Walter is a manifestation of a multiple personality, because I don't think a second personality can be controlled to come and go as the main personality wills it to. :mort2: :mort3: Wouldn't the other personality come out at unexpected times?


That thought occurred to me too, SweetSam. :eyebrow:


Do we know this for a fact? Aren't there certain situations that trigger the personality to appear?


That's possible, but I'm not sure it's controllable much of the time? :-?


True.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Unread postby suec » Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:54 pm

Liz wrote:I just wanted to clarify what I was looking for in asking where he went. Some of you may have already answered it, but I think I will give you the passage in case you don’t have the book anymore. I was wondering if there was some symbolism of which I am unaware in its description (i.e. “West”).

“I’ve only come to say good-bye.”
A stunned beat; then Crawley asked the question on all our minds. “But where are you going?”
“West.”
“There’s something there you want to see?”
“Mountains,” Walter replied, “though it’s what is on the other side of them that most interests me.”
In a timid voice Fox asked, “Do you think it is the City of God?”
“I hope not!” Walter said, “I would hate to go all that way just to find another dry town. No, I’ll be quite content to find a few others like myself. I know I sometimes come across as hardboiled, but I don’t mind admitting to you gentlemen that it can get lonely here in the evenings with no one to talk to.”


Liz, I think you are right about the symbolism. Apparently, "going west" was a slang phrase used in World War One for dying, because of going to the Western Front.

Also, I am pretty sure that the west is associated with death in various mythologies because of it being linked to the setting sun. I think that in Norse mythology, they believed that when the sun set in the west, it died, and was born again in the east, which is maybe why some people floated their chiefs out towards the setting sun in longboats. Whereas in Greek and Roman mythology, it was believed that after the sun had set, it travelled through the underworld, land of the dead. I haven't been able to look up these points to check them, though, BTW.

The mountains are also symbolic, of heaven and earth meeting, ascending, gaining access to the sacred and holy. The Gods descend from Mt. Olympus in Greek mythology, for instance. There also also some Biblical references.
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Unread postby Liz » Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:38 pm

suec wrote:
Liz wrote:I just wanted to clarify what I was looking for in asking where he went. Some of you may have already answered it, but I think I will give you the passage in case you don’t have the book anymore. I was wondering if there was some symbolism of which I am unaware in its description (i.e. “West”).

“I’ve only come to say good-bye.”
A stunned beat; then Crawley asked the question on all our minds. “But where are you going?”
“West.”
“There’s something there you want to see?”
“Mountains,” Walter replied, “though it’s what is on the other side of them that most interests me.”
In a timid voice Fox asked, “Do you think it is the City of God?”
“I hope not!” Walter said, “I would hate to go all that way just to find another dry town. No, I’ll be quite content to find a few others like myself. I know I sometimes come across as hardboiled, but I don’t mind admitting to you gentlemen that it can get lonely here in the evenings with no one to talk to.”


Liz, I think you are right about the symbolism. Apparently, "going west" was a slang phrase used in World War One for dying, because of going to the Western Front.

Also, I am pretty sure that the west is associated with death in various mythologies because of it being linked to the setting sun. I think that in Norse mythology, they believed that when the sun set in the west, it died, and was born again in the east, which is maybe why some people floated their chiefs out towards the setting sun in longboats. Whereas in Greek and Roman mythology, it was believed that after the sun had set, it travelled through the underworld, land of the dead. I haven't been able to look up these points to check them, though, BTW.

The mountains are also symbolic, of heaven and earth meeting, ascending, gaining access to the sacred and holy. The Gods descend from Mt. Olympus in Greek mythology, for instance. There also also some Biblical references.


Wow! :-O You're good! I did not know that about the West. But I was familiar with the mountain.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

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Unread postby suec » Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:31 pm

Well, thanks, but I'm not that good! I cheated and asked around. I knew it had something to do with Norse mythology, but wasn't sure what, and the WW1 slang was a real surprise.
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Unread postby Betty Sue » Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:10 pm

Wow! Well done, suec! That gives really great meaning to one of Inamorata's difficult passages! Appreciate that! :thanks!:
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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:19 pm

Betty Sue wrote:Wow! Well done, suec! That gives really great meaning to one of Inamorata's difficult passages! Appreciate that! :thanks!:


:cool: I agree, Betty Sue! The West reference from WWI was a good find suec! Thanks!
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Unread postby nebraska » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:56 pm

Ok. :banghead: I think the real life Mina was pure sham, pure trickery. I have trouble separating real life Mina from fictional Mina. I can suspend disbelief for fiction. I am not sure whether she was truly a medium or not, but I think Walter was real. I don't know that Crawley and the drugs and all the seance hoopla had anything to do with Walter showing up. I think Walter showed up when he darned well felt like it, and if that co-incided with the Crawleys' machinations, that's when he showed up. I am not sure what all his motives were, I think he was trying to protect his sister and rescue her from future troubles. I think he might just also have simply been a mischief-maker. I have no idea what I mean. :eyebrow:

Going over the mountain to find others like himself? San Francisco? A west coast community of gay ghosts??? :blush: :-O Is that possible?

I take it we should not get into the subject of Mina's baby, so probably I have to stop rambling now.

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Unread postby Liz » Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:55 pm

nebraska wrote:I think Walter was real. I don't know that Crawley and the drugs and all the seance hoopla had anything to do with Walter showing up. I think Walter showed up when he darned well felt like it, and if that co-incided with the Crawleys' machinations, that's when he showed up. I am not sure what all his motives were, I think he was trying to protect his sister and rescue her from future troubles. I think he might just also have simply been a mischief-maker. I have no idea what I mean. :eyebrow:

Going over the mountain to find others like himself? San Francisco? A west coast community of gay ghosts??? :blush: :-O Is that possible?

I take it we should not get into the subject of Mina's baby, so probably I have to stop rambling now.


I'm with you all the way, here, Nebraska. At least that's what I'd like to think--that Walter is real.....and that he showed up when he darn well felt like it. :lol: That's an interesting interpretation about "The West" too--and not far off from reality. :eyebrow:

Edit: Oops. forgot to answer this question....

nebraska wrote:I take it we should not get into the subject of Mina's baby, so probably I have to stop rambling now.


And you would be taking it correctly. :angel:
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Unread postby gilly » Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:47 am

I deliberately haven't posted before because I am so unsure of Walter. :dunce: :perplexed: I can't get my head around him....He is ,by far,the most interesting character..The story lives when he's around..I tend to agree with Nebraska...I think Mina is a fake but Walter is real..I thought for a long time that he was a part of Mina's disordered personality.....but he is so well drawn,his cynicism,his baiting of Finch,his I-couldn't-give a hoot- for -anything personality..It's so real.....Maybe this is the final irony..That despite all the fraudulent activity and the sham and the deceit,there is a spirit called Wallter,who is just toying with all the characters,manipulating them...There is truth amongst the lies..
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