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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:07 pm 
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Endora wrote:
Can I just say that resitance is very easy if you are certain the thing you are resisting cannot exist. Many people do not believe in any God, for a wealth of different reasons. If the only reason for believing involves some sort of leap of faith which leaves rationality aside, many of us would not consider ourselves to be resisting.


Very good point, Endora! :cool:



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:14 pm 
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No one has touched on my question about a Downs connection here. This has been bothering me since the last time we discussed this. I'm just wondering why Jeffreys throws in "Where's the spark?" in between these passages about believing or not believing. Do you think that it is supposed to be Downs calling to Wilmot telling him of the afterlife instead of Mr. Wyndham?



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:50 pm 
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OK Liz I’ll bite.

I think that Downs asking “where the spark?’ from beyond the grave, is a deathbed challenge for Wilmot. I think that despite the circumstances of his death, Down was inspired by (and maybe fell in love with) a man who would never capitulate to a theologian like Burnet… After all, conversion to save your soul is an “urgent now.” I think the real John Wilmot would say “Why should I?”



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:31 pm 
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dharma_bum wrote:
OK Liz I’ll bite.

I think that Downs asking “where the spark?’ from beyond the grave, is a deathbed challenge for Wilmot. I think that despite the circumstances of his death, Down was inspired by (and maybe fell in love with) a man who would never capitulate to a theologian like Burnet… After all, conversion to save your soul is an “urgent now.” I think the real John Wilmot would say “Why should I?”


Well, Dharma, you didn't just take a bite......You ate the whole apple. I'm speechless. :notworthy:

We've got two points of view on this now. Anyone else?



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:42 pm 
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When I first read this section I took it to mean that Downs was saying why has the light gone out? Where is the spark of creativity, of life that had been so bright. Now you guys are making me think about it other ways....



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 11:49 pm 
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You could be right, DITHOT.

Pg. 57....
Downs: To become a wit, a blade, a spark. The very word, spark, a hot splinter of fashion to scorch the town and burn it to the ground.

Downs also roots for the horse referring to Spark. "Go on, Vanishing Spark, go my Spark, go my Sparky Spark, go, go, go, give him the whip, don't just show it to him, make him run for me -"



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 1:17 am 
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All of these passages at the very end are comments about Rochestor so I can think that Down's comment must be about Rochestor too. I think that Rochestor was a spark to Down's and now he has gone.

This could be an interesting play on words by Jeffreys since if you look up spark in the dictionary it can mean "2 : LOVER, BEAU". So Downs could be saying both where is the spark in life and also where is my lover.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:00 am 
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karla wrote:
All of these passages at the very end are comments about Rochestor so I can think that Down's comment must be about Rochestor too. I think that Rochestor was a spark to Down's and now he has gone.

This could be an interesting play on words by Jeffreys since if you look up spark in the dictionary it can mean "2 : LOVER, BEAU". So Downs could be saying both where is the spark in life and also where is my lover.


That's interesting. :-O I had no idea.



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