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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:42 pm 
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DeppLovesBananahs wrote:
I wanted to add that I showed my Brad Pitt-loving English teacher today the Wave Speech. I deemed this approtiate because currently we are reading/studying the Scarlet Letter. Which essentially is a symbol of wrong doing, if you've never read it, don't. Just kidding. I haven't begun reading it, yet, but I heard bad reviews from the student population. This only makes me want to read FALILV instead of Hawthorne's book.

My english teacher said and I quote "that's really neat" about the Wave Speech. I don't think she completely got it, but if I sat down and took the time to explain to her the whole purpose behind FALILV, and the Wave Speech, she would be better off than she is now. Poor Brad Pitt-ified soul. :-/

Hannah


Hannah, you are a good teacher of teachers. :cool: Don't give up on the Scarlet Letter. There are definitely some worthwhile ideas in that book.



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:46 pm 
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DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:
DeppLovesBananahs wrote:
I wanted to add that I showed my Brad Pitt-loving English teacher today the Wave Speech. I deemed this approtiate because currently we are reading/studying the Scarlet Letter. Which essentially is a symbol of wrong doing, if you've never read it, don't. Just kidding. I haven't begun reading it, yet, but I heard bad reviews from the student population. This only makes me want to read FALILV instead of Hawthorne's book.

My english teacher said and I quote "that's really neat" about the Wave Speech. I don't think she completely got it, but if I sat down and took the time to explain to her the whole purpose behind FALILV, and the Wave Speech, she would be better off than she is now. Poor Brad Pitt-ified soul. :-/

Hannah


Hannah, you are a good teacher of teachers. :cool: Don't give up on the Scarlet Letter. There are definitely some worthwhile ideas in that book.


Thanks :cool: Is the Scarlet Letter a hard read? Because I've found last year at least with Tale of Two Cities, which was dreadfully hard to read, and hard to do homework for, and I really want to get a good grade in this class. Have you read it before?

Hannah


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:15 pm 
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DeppLovesBananahs wrote:
Thanks :cool: Is the Scarlet Letter a hard read? Because I've found last year at least with Tale of Two Cities, which was dreadfully hard to read, and hard to do homework for, and I really want to get a good grade in this class. Have you read it before?


Hannah, I've read The Scarlet Letter many times, though not recently. But Hawthorne is a marvelous writer and I think that if you just go with Hester and experience what's happening to her, you will really get into it. I agree that A Tale of Two Cities can be something to plow through at times, but I think you will really like The Scarlet Letter and you will be really angry and emotional by the end of it. Then you will thank your Brad-Pittized English teacher for leading you to Hawthorne. (Secret tip: read a short story by Hawthorne called Rappaccini's Daughter and you will be forever in love with Hawthorne - not to mention getting way much extra credit in class!)



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:24 pm 
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Bix wrote:
DeppLovesBananahs wrote:
Thanks :cool: Is the Scarlet Letter a hard read? Because I've found last year at least with Tale of Two Cities, which was dreadfully hard to read, and hard to do homework for, and I really want to get a good grade in this class. Have you read it before?


Hannah, I've read The Scarlet Letter many times, though not recently. But Hawthorne is a marvelous writer and I think that if you just go with Hester and experience what's happening to her, you will really get into it. I agree that A Tale of Two Cities can be something to plow through at times, but I think you will really like The Scarlet Letter and you will be really angry and emotional by the end of it. Then you will thank your Brad-Pittized English teacher for leading you to Hawthorne. (Secret tip: read a short story by Hawthorne called Rappaccini's Daughter and you will be forever in love with Hawthorne - not to mention getting way much extra credit in class!)


Thanks, I was worried about it. TOTC was extremely nerve racking, I don't think anyone read that book in my english class last year. We all used internet cliff notes, pinkmonkey.com, and spark notes. Despite many attempts from my teacher who said she knew about these sites and was taking points off for it. But we still got away with it in the end. :capnjack:

I have to start reading The Scarlet Letter this weekend and for a project we have to create our own letter and wear to school for ten days! The letter is supposed to represent something we're ashamed of. I'm still not sure what to do.

Thanks for the encouragement, Bix. And I shall have to look into that short story, hopefully my Brad Pitt lover english teacher will reward me handsomely for that knowledge. :cool:

Hannah



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:47 pm 
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DeppLovesBananahs wrote:
Bix wrote:
DeppLovesBananahs wrote:
Thanks :cool: Is the Scarlet Letter a hard read? Because I've found last year at least with Tale of Two Cities, which was dreadfully hard to read, and hard to do homework for, and I really want to get a good grade in this class. Have you read it before?


Hannah, I've read The Scarlet Letter many times, though not recently. But Hawthorne is a marvelous writer and I think that if you just go with Hester and experience what's happening to her, you will really get into it. I agree that A Tale of Two Cities can be something to plow through at times, but I think you will really like The Scarlet Letter and you will be really angry and emotional by the end of it. Then you will thank your Brad-Pittized English teacher for leading you to Hawthorne. (Secret tip: read a short story by Hawthorne called Rappaccini's Daughter and you will be forever in love with Hawthorne - not to mention getting way much extra credit in class!)


Thanks, I was worried about it. TOTC was extremely nerve racking, I don't think anyone read that book in my english class last year. We all used internet cliff notes, pinkmonkey.com, and spark notes. Despite many attempts from my teacher who said she knew about these sites and was taking points off for it. But we still got away with it in the end. :capnjack:

I have to start reading The Scarlet Letter this weekend and for a project we have to create our own letter and wear to school for ten days! The letter is supposed to represent something we're ashamed of. I'm still not sure what to do.

Thanks for the encouragement, Bix. And I shall have to look into that short story, hopefully my Brad Pitt lover english teacher will reward me handsomely for that knowledge. :cool:

Hannah


I've enjoyed reading about your interactions with your Brad Pitt Lover English teacher. I read both ATOTC and TSL in high school, but don't remember much. I found The Scarlet Letter disturbing. That's all I remember, besides the general plot. And I found ATOTC boring. I wonder what high school English teachers would think of some of our discussions and of the articulate and insightful answers their students give here in this forum.



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:16 pm 
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DeppLovesBananahs wrote:
I have to start reading The Scarlet Letter this weekend and for a project we have to create our own letter and wear to school for ten days! The letter is supposed to represent something we're ashamed of. I'm still not sure what to do.


I know we have gone way off topic here, but since Liz responded, I don't guess we are in real trouble - and we're talking about books. :innocent: But, I just want to encourage you to at least try to read the real author first before you go to the Cliff notes, etc. Because as you have discovered with HST and others, it is the voice and the technique of the real author that will carry the real message to you in a way that you will never get from a synopsis by even the most talented critic.

I love the idea of the letter project. I won't tell you what Hester's letter is, in case you don't already know. But I got to thinking about what I would choose. . .and I think I would have to choose an S - for sloth (one of the seven deadly sins). I am ashamed that I am so lazy, that I do so little to help others and to advance my own knowledge and involment. Anyway, keep us posted on what you choose.

And somebody cut us off here if we shouldn't be doing this!



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:28 pm 
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Nothing to cut off, Bix, when we are discussing books. :cool: Image



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:31 pm 
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Bix wrote:
I love the idea of the letter project. I won't tell you what Hester's letter is, in case you don't already know. But I got to thinking about what I would choose. . .and I think I would have to choose an S - for sloth (one of the seven deadly sins). I am ashamed that I am so lazy, that I do so little to help others and to advance my own knowledge and involment. Anyway, keep us posted on what you choose.

And somebody cut us off here if we shouldn't be doing this!


Yes, this project has been going on since my sister was a wee one, long standing tradition in the ciriculum(sp?). I like your idea for S for Sloth. I am quite lazy at times, more often than not. That could work. Thanks for the idea. :cool: A part of the project is, that you can't tell anyone what your letter means. That should be fun, when someone asks I could be like.....Its a religious thing. Or I'm experimenting with extremely dangerous voodoo.


Liz wrote:
I've enjoyed reading about your interactions with your Brad Pitt Lover English teacher. I read both ATOTC and TSL in high school, but don't remember much. I found The Scarlet Letter disturbing. That's all I remember, besides the general plot. And I found ATOTC boring. I wonder what high school English teachers would think of some of our discussions and of the articulate and insightful answers their students give here in this forum.


I found ATOTC boring in the sense that the words were boring. Everytime we discussed it, it was like, WOW thats what was in that chapter? :-O I was like, I wish I read that. All I read was something about a city. Two of them.

I shall most definitely keep you galz posted on my Brad Pitt lovin' English teacher. I might even start a thread about it.....*thinks to self* I'll try to think it over as I read Scarlet Letter and reread FALILV.

Later Days,

Hannah



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:22 pm 
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Bix wrote:
I know we have gone way off topic here, but since Liz responded, I don't guess we are in real trouble - and we're talking about books. :innocent: But, I just want to encourage you to at least try to read the real author first before you go to the Cliff notes, etc. Because as you have discovered with HST and others, it is the voice and the technique of the real author that will carry the real message to you in a way that you will never get from a synopsis by even the most talented critic.


Don't go by me, Bix. I've been known to get in trouble. :capnjack: :lol:

I have to agree with you, Bix. You should read the book first. I think Cliff Notes and Sparknotes are valuable (obviously) but only after you've read it--in order to enhance your experience. But here's the thing I'm wondering about. Will the analyses in the notes conflict with your English teacher's curriculum?



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:29 pm 

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Oh, DeppLovesBananas, as an English teacher who has enough sense to like Johnny Depp, I am loving and chuckling over your tales of the "Pittiful" English teacher! But, as much as I hate to tell you this, I loved Tale of Two Cities and barely made it through The Scarlet Letter. To me, TOTC is about the romantic sacrifice of Sydney Carton--in love with Lucy Manette, but knowing she's in love with his look-alike Charles Darnay and not him, and then going to the gallows in place of Charles Darnay, so that Lucy can have the man she loves, all against the backdrop of the French Revolution--well, I find that thrilling. Sidney Carton's sacrificing himself and giving up the woman he loves so that she may survive reminds me of several of Johnny's characters--Abberline, Cesar, and Raphael. I highly recommend the old film with Ronald Coleman--so tragic and inspiring!

As for symbolism in F&LILV, I was making a joke about the "transparent" symbolism of the Neutrogena soap, but I do find the detail significant. It is true that Hunter actually collected Neutrogena soap samples from a hotel in Vegas; I remember Johnny's mentioning that he found them in Hunter's basement while he was researching F&LILV. But it is interesting to me that Hunter decided that detail was important enough, and significant enough to include in his book associating Las Vegas with the "savage heart of the American dream." That a hotel in Las Vegas would choose Neutrogena soap was funny, and ironic: the ad campaigns for Neutrogena soap have always touted it as somehow purer than other soaps, more natural and contaminant-free because it's sorta transparent instead of opaque like fatty, greedy, greasy, overfed soaps, and it would be more expensive for a hotel to give out than Cashmere Bouquet and Camay. And then I remember that until I heard a TV ad for it, I wasn't sure how to pronounce Neutrogena soap, and that gives it a sort of elite air. So a hotel in Las Vegas using the pure, lean, sinless hard-to-pronounce Neutrogena soap was sort of ironic, and I bet it struck Hunter that way. He could have just written "we stole a lot of the free soap," but he was compelled to mention the brand, so he must have thought it important.

I was recently at a couple of Holiday Inns, and they advertised this new line of "pure and simple" free sample products that they were proud of using, in very unadorned cylindrical bottles. The little shampoo bottle had only one word printed on it, like "cleansing" and the conditioner bottle said something like "untangling," and every product had a one-word gerund as the label. The simplicity was downright cloying and pretentious. Neither of these two Holiday Inns offered the shower caps--which I am accustomed to getting, so I was pissed, and it occurred to me that they couldn't offer a shower cap in this line of product because they couldn't come up with a "pure and simple" one-word gerund label for it! If they labelled it "protecting," someone might mistake it for a condom and sue the Holiday Inn for child support! My point is that soap is never just soap: the hotel chooses its brand of soap to create a certain identity. Each soap has an image associated with it, and the image of Neutrogena soap is at the opposite end of the spectrum from Las Vegas!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:21 am 
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srt, all I can say is.... :biglaugh: :applause: That was a Hunter worthy post. :cool:



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:12 am 
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Symbolism -- the bane of English class. :lol:

DeppLovesBananahs, brush up on your symbolism -- it’s in every word of The Scarlett Letter.


Intended as symbolism or not, I was intrigued by the chapter starting on page 161, where the original tape recordings were transcribed. The passage starts out with Duke and Gonzo looking for cheap tacos and ends with the miscommunication in the diner about where to find The American Dream, possibly located in the Old Psychiatrist’s Club building. The part that caught my interest was the final Editor’s note that mentioned how Duke and Gonzo finally located what was left of the Old Psychiatrist’s Club -- a huge slab of cracked, scorched concrete in a vacant lot full of tall weeds. The owner of a gas station across the road said the place had “burned down about three years ago.”

So the “American Dream” had burned down about three years ago…close to the time of Altamont, which was noted as the end of the youth culture. Symbolic? Maybe. Or maybe I’m just grasping at straws. Symbolism was never one of my strong points in English class…sometimes a bar of soap IS just a bar of soap!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:21 am 
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theresa wrote: So the “American Dream” had burned down about three years ago…close to the time of Altamont, which was noted as the end of the youth culture. Symbolic? Maybe. Or maybe I’m just grasping at straws. Symbolism was never one of my strong points in English class…sometimes a bar of soap IS just a bar of soap!


I think you are on to something here, theresa! :cool:



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 11:37 am 
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theresa wrote:
Symbolism -- the bane of English class. :lol:

DeppLovesBananahs, brush up on your symbolism -- it’s in every word of The Scarlett Letter.


Intended as symbolism or not, I was intrigued by the chapter starting on page 161, where the original tape recordings were transcribed. The passage starts out with Duke and Gonzo looking for cheap tacos and ends with the miscommunication in the diner about where to find The American Dream, possibly located in the Old Psychiatrist’s Club building. The part that caught my interest was the final Editor’s note that mentioned how Duke and Gonzo finally located what was left of the Old Psychiatrist’s Club -- a huge slab of cracked, scorched concrete in a vacant lot full of tall weeds. The owner of a gas station across the road said the place had “burned down about three years ago.”

So the “American Dream” had burned down about three years ago…close to the time of Altamont, which was noted as the end of the youth culture. Symbolic? Maybe. Or maybe I’m just grasping at straws. Symbolism was never one of my strong points in English class…sometimes a bar of soap IS just a bar of soap!


Theresa, I was waiting for most of the answers to the AD to come out before I brought this up. I'm glad you did because you chose a part of that chapter that I hadn't noticed. Good catch. I don't think I ever would have caught that.

So here's what I think about the Old Psychiatrist's Club on Paradise Blvd.


The American Dream is all in your head and it’s found in paradise, which doesn't exist.



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 7:43 pm 
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Still-Rather-Timid wrote:
Oh, DeppLovesBananas, as an English teacher who has enough sense to like Johnny Depp, I am loving and chuckling over your tales of the "Pittiful" English teacher! But, as much as I hate to tell you this, I loved Tale of Two Cities and barely made it through The Scarlet Letter. To me, TOTC is about the romantic sacrifice of Sydney Carton--in love with Lucy Manette, but knowing she's in love with his look-alike Charles Darnay and not him, and then going to the gallows in place of Charles Darnay, so that Lucy can have the man she loves, all against the backdrop of the French Revolution--well, I find that thrilling. Sidney Carton's sacrificing himself and giving up the woman he loves so that she may survive reminds me of several of Johnny's characters--Abberline, Cesar, and Raphael. I highly recommend the old film with Ronald Coleman--so tragic and inspiring!

As for symbolism in F&LILV, I was making a joke about the "transparent" symbolism of the Neutrogena soap, but I do find the detail significant. It is true that Hunter actually collected Neutrogena soap samples from a hotel in Vegas; I remember Johnny's mentioning that he found them in Hunter's basement while he was researching F&LILV. But it is interesting to me that Hunter decided that detail was important enough, and significant enough to include in his book associating Las Vegas with the "savage heart of the American dream." That a hotel in Las Vegas would choose Neutrogena soap was funny, and ironic: the ad campaigns for Neutrogena soap have always touted it as somehow purer than other soaps, more natural and contaminant-free because it's sorta transparent instead of opaque like fatty, greedy, greasy, overfed soaps, and it would be more expensive for a hotel to give out than Cashmere Bouquet and Camay. And then I remember that until I heard a TV ad for it, I wasn't sure how to pronounce Neutrogena soap, and that gives it a sort of elite air. So a hotel in Las Vegas using the pure, lean, sinless hard-to-pronounce Neutrogena soap was sort of ironic, and I bet it struck Hunter that way. He could have just written "we stole a lot of the free soap," but he was compelled to mention the brand, so he must have thought it important.

I was recently at a couple of Holiday Inns, and they advertised this new line of "pure and simple" free sample products that they were proud of using, in very unadorned cylindrical bottles. The little shampoo bottle had only one word printed on it, like "cleansing" and the conditioner bottle said something like "untangling," and every product had a one-word gerund as the label. The simplicity was downright cloying and pretentious. Neither of these two Holiday Inns offered the shower caps--which I am accustomed to getting, so I was pissed, and it occurred to me that they couldn't offer a shower cap in this line of product because they couldn't come up with a "pure and simple" one-word gerund label for it! If they labelled it "protecting," someone might mistake it for a condom and sue the Holiday Inn for child support! My point is that soap is never just soap: the hotel chooses its brand of soap to create a certain identity. Each soap has an image associated with it, and the image of Neutrogena soap is at the opposite end of the spectrum from Las Vegas!


Thanks, I'm glad my Pittified English teacher delights you all, I enjoy telling the antics as it were of her, she's quite a character. See the problem for me with ATOTC, was that all that interesting and thought provoking things you just talked about, I didn't comprenhend from the book. Because of the wording, too many words to be more exact, but I am glad you liked it. I am only in the begining stages of the Scarlet Letter, I will form an opinion on it shortly, just have to wash up with some soap first......where did I put that......????

To answer you question Liz, would the notes conflict with my teacher's teaching, well, yeah. :blush: At least it did with ATOTC, (I'll have to check with Scarlet Letter, but SparkNotes, etc, can be helpful, but only in moderation) everytime my friends and I used it to answer questions about chapters and such, I would always get the answers wrong. Probably because the notes weren't specific and just generalized the meaning of the chapter. At times they were helpful but really in the end, you gotta read the book. But ATOTC was just impossible for me, God Bless SRT for reading it, and liking it, I could never get through it.

I'll make a note to update on whatever my english is up to par so to speak with the world of Depp yet. As soon as we're done with the Puritans. :-O

Oh, before I venture off, I have a funny story from English class. You know how the Puritans believed in predestination? Well this kid in my class asked my teacher, if they knew they were going to Hell (or not) since they believed in predestination, if they were going to Hell, why didn't they just party?

I may have just said "going to hell" way too many times for the rules's liking. :eyebrow: :-? But its for ENGLISH. :cool:
:chill:
Hannah



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