The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum Question #5 - Privacy

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The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum Question #5 - Privacy

Unread postby Liz » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:57 pm

And another one from Tidbit #15:

“Privacy protects us from being mis-defined and judged out of context in a world of short attention spans, a world in which information can easily be confused with knowledge. True knowledge of another person is the culmination of a slow process of mutual revelation. It requires the gradual setting aside of social masks, the incremental building of trust, which leads to the exchange of personal disclosures. It cannot be rushed; this is why, after intemperate self-revelation in the heat of passion, one may feel something close to self-betrayal. True knowledge of another person, in all of his or her complexity, can only be achieved with a handful of friends, lovers, or family members. In order to flourish, the intimate relationships on which true knowledge of another person depends need space as well as time: sanctuaries from the gaze of the crowd in which slow mutual self-disclosure is possible.” ~ Jeffrey Rosen

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Re: The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum Question #5 - Privacy

Unread postby stroch » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:24 am

So I guess speed-dating is not an option for Rosen,

... after intemperate self-revelation in the heat of passion, one may feel something close to self-betrayal.
Not to mention embarrassment and an deep desire to avoid the person in the future.
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Re: The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum Question #5 - Privacy

Unread postby fireflydances » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:38 pm

What I like about this quote is how it seems to capture the problem faced by anyone "known" through media. The face we consistently see, the way a person moves, etc. We have learned to pick up so much from visual information that the repeated photos or even videos convinces us we know the person. The intimacy of the picture -- it certainly works well for building a bank account but I don't think repetition of staged photos or even photos taken in staged situations truly makes a person known in the way we think of knowing a person. The dilemma of celebrity --the oh so familiar stranger.
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Re: The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum Question #5 - Privacy

Unread postby nebraska » Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:38 pm

Firefly's comment reminded me of Murray Pomerance's book "Johnny Depp Starts Here" which made me :hypnotic: when I tried to read it. Some day I need to give it another go. Don't we all think we "know" Johnny and refer to him by his first name and interpret what we think he believes/feels/thinks as a person? But basically, what I got out of the chapter I struggled through is this: there is Johnny Depp the actor on a film set portraying a character, and then there is Johnny Depp the actor playing the role of celebrity and portraying himself as a public person, and then there is John Depp the actual person who is known only to a handful of close people like his mother and brother. And we, who are not in that close inner circle, see only the persona he chooses to put on display for us, or those fleeting images that the paps present to us as "true" but may have little to do with who he truly is. Or maybe all those views are part of who he truly is. :hypnotic:

I think we all have many faces -- our work self, our friend self, our customer self, our parent self, our lover self ... and they may all be a valid part of who we are and the pieces of self we reveal are a partial picture of who we are at our core. I wonder if it is ever possible to fully know the complete center of self ourselves. And I think our most personal self changes from time to time. I was once very close to a woman, we both shared our most intimate feelings and thoughts as we struggled to get through our individual struggles. Then she married a military man and went to Europe where she became stronger and more experienced with life; I stayed behind and became a grandmother for the first time and also a bereaved parent. When she returned from Europe, we tried to re-connect, but neither of us was the same person we had been a few years earlier and that time of closeness had passed. The self revelations we made in the early days were true and valid at the time, but they were not a permanent picture of who we were forever.

Being totally private would seem to be a very lonely thing. But I think it is important to have control over who we let in, even a little, and who we shut out.

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Re: The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum Question #5 - Privacy

Unread postby Liz » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:13 pm

stroch wrote:So I guess speed-dating is not an option for Rosen


:lol:

Good one, stroch!
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Re: The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum Question #5 - Privacy

Unread postby Liz » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:24 pm

nebraska wrote:Firefly's comment reminded me of Murray Pomerance's book "Johnny Depp Starts Here" which made me :hypnotic: when I tried to read it. Some day I need to give it another go. Don't we all think we "know" Johnny and refer to him by his first name and interpret what we think he believes/feels/thinks as a person? But basically, what I got out of the chapter I struggled through is this: there is Johnny Depp the actor on a film set portraying a character, and then there is Johnny Depp the actor playing the role of celebrity and portraying himself as a public person, and then there is John Depp the actual person who is known only to a handful of close people like his mother and brother. And we, who are not in that close inner circle, see only the persona he chooses to put on display for us, or those fleeting images that the paps present to us as "true" but may have little to do with who he truly is. Or maybe all those views are part of who he truly is. :hypnotic:

I think we all have many faces -- our work self, our friend self, our customer self, our parent self, our lover self ... and they may all be a valid part of who we are and the pieces of self we reveal are a partial picture of who we are at our core. I wonder if it is ever possible to fully know the complete center of self ourselves. And I think our most personal self changes from time to time. I was once very close to a woman, we both shared our most intimate feelings and thoughts as we struggled to get through our individual struggles. Then she married a military man and went to Europe where she became stronger and more experienced with life; I stayed behind and became a grandmother for the first time and also a bereaved parent. When she returned from Europe, we tried to re-connect, but neither of us was the same person we had been a few years earlier and that time of closeness had passed. The self revelations we made in the early days were true and valid at the time, but they were not a permanent picture of who we were forever.

Being totally private would seem to be a very lonely thing. But I think it is important to have control over who we let in, even a little, and who we shut out.

Very well said, nebraska, on a number of levels.

I agree with all of it, and I don't think I could add much more. However, I will add a personal note that I have found recently that I need to be a little bit more discriminate about how much I divulge of my private life and to whom I divulge it to. I think I need to go back to being a woman of mystery.
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Re: The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum Question #5 - Privacy

Unread postby fireflydances » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:53 pm

I read this very interesting article about how athletes adjust their perception of self after they've been categorized as stars for some time. Now this was a research article and the star athletes weren't celebrities. They were young athletes who'd gone from being ordinary people to being considered and treated as stars in college and professionally. What was interesting was that they abandoned various aspects of their wider sense of self and had re-defined themselves according to the new narrower description that 'fit' their media image.
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Re: The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum Question #5 - Privacy

Unread postby RamblinRebel » Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:04 pm

nebraska wrote:Firefly's comment reminded me of Murray Pomerance's book "Johnny Depp Starts Here" which made me :hypnotic: when I tried to read it. Some day I need to give it another go. Don't we all think we "know" Johnny and refer to him by his first name and interpret what we think he believes/feels/thinks as a person? But basically, what I got out of the chapter I struggled through is this: there is Johnny Depp the actor on a film set portraying a character, and then there is Johnny Depp the actor playing the role of celebrity and portraying himself as a public person, and then there is John Depp the actual person who is known only to a handful of close people like his mother and brother. And we, who are not in that close inner circle, see only the persona he chooses to put on display for us, or those fleeting images that the paps present to us as "true" but may have little to do with who he truly is. Or maybe all those views are part of who he truly is. :hypnotic:

I think we all have many faces -- our work self, our friend self, our customer self, our parent self, our lover self ... and they may all be a valid part of who we are and the pieces of self we reveal are a partial picture of who we are at our core. I wonder if it is ever possible to fully know the complete center of self ourselves. And I think our most personal self changes from time to time. I was once very close to a woman, we both shared our most intimate feelings and thoughts as we struggled to get through our individual struggles. Then she married a military man and went to Europe where she became stronger and more experienced with life; I stayed behind and became a grandmother for the first time and also a bereaved parent. When she returned from Europe, we tried to re-connect, but neither of us was the same person we had been a few years earlier and that time of closeness had passed. The self revelations we made in the early days were true and valid at the time, but they were not a permanent picture of who we were forever.

Being totally private would seem to be a very lonely thing. But I think it is important to have control over who we let in, even a little, and who we shut out.
Nebraska, I think that is spot on, and beautifully stated.

I can only offer another analogy. A very close friend of mine likened us all to onions, each of us having many, many layers protecting a central core. And two people getting to know each other is like peeling that onion. When we see someone on the street, or look at a photograph, we are only seeing the colored papery surface of the onion. As we become more comfortable with someone, we remove the paper surface, revealing a little more of our true self, letting them in a bit. We might remove the outer layer or two for co-workers and casual acquaintances. Family and closer friends, we allow to go deeper. But within a lifetime, there might only be one or two people who we allow to venture all the way into our central core. For in there lies our deepest desires, our darkest demons, our most profound thoughts. Some of us might go our entire life without letting another enter that inner-most sanctuary. To let someone in that deep it takes not only courage, but also participation both ways. One person must remove the barriers and reveal, but the other must also look and dig.

As for Johnny, well, I think the staged photos show us the papery surface. But I also think Johnny has been unusually generous with what he has revealed in interviews and articles he’s written. For those who take the time and effort to really look, he’s let us into that outer layer or two. At the same time it is all part of the “the persona he chooses to put on display for us” as Nebraska said. Silence. Exile. Cunning. We’re a very, very long way from that central core.

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Re: The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum Question #5 - Privacy

Unread postby Buster » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:32 pm

I think privacy is inextricably linked with trust.

We allow those we have faith in to "peel the onion". If we have doubts about the integrity of a person (or a publication), we are far more guarded about what we are willing to reveal.

Some professions have made a point of the sanctity of personal information - the clergy, physicians, lawyers - and some are notorious for breaching confidences.

And of course some people are more sensitive about what the public thinks of them than others...Notoriety has a twisted appeal, perhaps.


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