It is currently Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:07 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




 Page 1 of 1 [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: On Stranger Tides Question #8 ~ Hurwood and Friend
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:21 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:43 pm
Posts: 10376
Location: Austin
Beth's father, Benjamin Hurwood and his side kick Leo Friend. Did you guess what they were up to? What did you think of them?



_________________________________________________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -
Wow! What a ride!
Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: On Stranger Tides Question #8 ~ Hurwood and Friend
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:57 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:15 pm
Posts: 2364
Location: under a pile of books
Been sitting here trying to remember where I was in the book when it first occurred to me that Hurwood and company were planning to do Beth in. From the opening scene it was pretty obvious that Hurwood had abandoned his child, turned her over to Friend although it wasn't clear why. I decided immediately Hurwood wasn't in charge, Friend was. But why? I think it was when they were paddling along in the canoes that it dawned on me that Beth was basically a vessel, not real to her father, only a place to put his wife.

How did I feel about the pair? At times I felt sorry for Hurwood oddly enough. I didn't find him in control of himself at all. Although not 'bewitched' by anything but his own imagination and inability to let go of his past, he seemed to dream walk through life, even at the beginning. You couldn't help but wonder who he might have been in the past and whether that past self would be utterly horrified by what he'd become. He was a man of some bearing once, reduced by the time we meet him to a sniveling thing willing to sacrifice perhaps the jewel of his long love for his wife, committed to killing his child. Friend was despicable: a worm, something you want to squish.

The thing I still don't get with regard to Hurwood is when he so completely lost himself. That first journey, was that when he hooked in Vodum? How? I want to know that original story: where he met Friend, met Blackbeard. How did Friend, and I think it is definitely him, how did Friend turn Hurwood? And I want to know more about Hurwood's need to raise his dead wife. Love doesn't explain that does it? There's all this nastiness around using women isn't there? Drag your wife out of the grave, scoop out your daughter's soul. Friend's really sick fascinations. Even Blackbeard -- Beth is a tool, the other women all tools. I'd even like to understand Friend's evilness: is he a man or not really, just a collection of pain and horror?

I think I am straying from the original question.



_________________________________________________________
"Some books are to be tasted, others to be swallowed and some few to be chewed and digested." Sir Francis Bacon, Of Studies
Offline
 Profile WWW  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: On Stranger Tides Question #8 ~ Hurwood and Friend
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:11 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:09 pm
Posts: 752
Location: Kentucky
Hurwood and Friend were a despicable pair. They seemed to be using Beth and each other for some end. Hurwood to replace his wife and Friend to ??? They were the definition of complete evil. Sick and disgusting comes to mind. Now that I have said how I felt about them - they certainly added and made the story exciting. Wouldn't have been a story without them!!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: On Stranger Tides Question #8 ~ Hurwood and Friend
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:47 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:28 pm
Posts: 3907
Location: Florida
Like fireflydances, I didn’t immediately think Hurwood intended harm to his daughter. I thought he was going insane but hoped he would still realize what he was doing and not harm Beth. Strangely it was Leo who was even more depraved who had no intention of letting Hurwood use Beth. Friend also seemed to be mentally unstable but from magic and his upbringing.
I also felt a little sorry for Hurwood because he seemed to have been an educated normal fellow before he lost his wife. Obviously he was depressed and unstable after her death but I wonder if he would have went totally insane with out the added voodoo knowledge that gave him the idea to bring her back. I also would have liked a little more backstory on both of them.



_________________________________________________________
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
Offline
 Profile WWW  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: On Stranger Tides Question #8 ~ Hurwood and Friend
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:26 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:43 pm
Posts: 10376
Location: Austin
I agree a little more backstory of how Hurwood hooked up with Friend and Blackbeard would have been interesting. I totally bought Hurwood's descent into madness. From the prologue we get the sense that he is a man totally immersed in a quest and taken by insanity. I suppose Friend was able to play on this to achieve his own ends...immortality and power? Friend was definitely a sick individual who had a goal of domination. There is a passage, I don't have the page number handy, where he talks about being able to totally manipulate a peron, mind and body, and that was something he desired desparately. In Hurwood, he found someone he could manipulate by using his grief and promises of reuniting with his wife to his own ends. A worm is a good way to decribe him although I see him more as a cockroach. Ugly, resilient and darn hard to get rid of!



_________________________________________________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -
Wow! What a ride!
Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: On Stranger Tides Question #8 ~ Hurwood and Friend
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:15 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:24 pm
Posts: 545
Location: Chicago or thereabouts
ladylinn wrote:
They were the definition of complete evil. Sick and disgusting comes to mind. Now that I have said how I felt about them - they certainly added and made the story exciting. Wouldn't have been a story without them!!

That about sums up how I feel too. Sick. Twisted. Repulsive. Beyond comprehension, really, when it comes to Hurwood. The kind of creepy characters that make you cheer when they are killed off - or at least breath a sigh of relief. But they make for a good story.

I don’t think I’d want any additional back story on these two. If in the past they were semi-normal, I don’t want to know. I don’t want to feel sympathy for them under any circumstances.

Thanks to the prologue, I think I figured out pretty early-on what Hurwood was up to. Can’t remember exactly when though... :perplexed:


Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: On Stranger Tides Question #8 ~ Hurwood and Friend
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:49 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:07 am
Posts: 793
Oddly enough, as I was reading, both of these characters seemed to have their own "theme music" that kept popping into my head. Does this happen to anyone else?
You know how, when we first saw Captain Jack and that amazing theme music swelled up, we immediately knew something of his character? You were sure you were going to like him.
Well, in my mind, Leo Friend would have an equally compelling and distinctive theme, but it would have to be something like a macabre version of "Ring Around the Rosie", a child's tune that some say references the Great Plague. Perverted childishness with deadly power - that about sums up Leo, eh?
For Hurwood, it would begin as a fairly organised and complicated counterpoint that gradually disintegrated into an insistent and mindless throb. The auditory equivalent of hubris, however envisaged, suits him, I think.
I wonder what Tim listens to as he develops his characters...


Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: On Stranger Tides Question #8 ~ Hurwood and Friend
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:15 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:43 pm
Posts: 10376
Location: Austin
Interesting thoughts and a good question, Buster!



_________________________________________________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -
Wow! What a ride!
Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: On Stranger Tides Question #8 ~ Hurwood and Friend
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:00 am 
JDZ Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:13 pm
Posts: 12379
Location: The Left Coast
Your analogy to a cockroach is perfect, DITHOT.

Buster, interesting you had a theme song going for those 2. That's happened to me with other books, but I can't say that it did with this book.

I would like to know the backstory on these 2 miscreants also, just out of curiosity.

I did not guess what they were up to....except no good.



_________________________________________________________
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: On Stranger Tides Question #8 ~ Hurwood and Friend
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:23 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 8:15 pm
Posts: 18672
Location: near Omaha
I thought we got plenty of disgusting backstory on Friend. pages 70-74. page 239-232. Right off hand I can't find the part where he reaches out to fondle Beth and calls here "mommy." :yuck2: He was truly disgusting. I thought Hurwood was simply nuts, but Friend was sick and evil.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: On Stranger Tides Question #8 ~ Hurwood and Friend
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:56 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:43 pm
Posts: 10376
Location: Austin
nebraska, some of Friend's backstory was almost TMI for me. :-O



_________________________________________________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -
Wow! What a ride!
Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: On Stranger Tides Question #8 ~ Hurwood and Friend
PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:31 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:43 pm
Posts: 10376
Location: Austin
More on Hurwood and Friend from the interview with Tim Powers that has been quoted on other questions:

Quote:
The relationship between Hurwood and Leo Friend is a strange one, can you enlighten us a bit about it and why you included the character of Friend in the story?



-TP “Hurwood was a bit stuffy and formal and distracted -- dignified! -- and so I wanted a co-villain who could be gross and vain and pretentious; a better target for contempt and scorn! And I made him competent at magic so that he'd be a plausible accomplice of Hurwood's, but ultimately not a reliable one. If Hurwood had been paying closer attention, he'd have seen that Friend was treacherous!”


Interview excerpt from novelchatter.com:



_________________________________________________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -
Wow! What a ride!
Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: On Stranger Tides Question #8 ~ Hurwood and Friend
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:28 am 
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:47 am
Posts: 19
Buster, I like your theme music! I don't actually listen to music as I write -- if it's good, I'd stop writing to listen to it -- but I often have some song or bit of music that I associate with a book. I can't remember what it might have been for On Stranger Tides! -- but it's generally pretty random. At one time or another it's been "Old Man River" by Paul Robeson, various Pet Shop Boys songs, various Dylan songs ... Wagner's Tannhauser Overture ... even things from Marx Brothers movies!

All these thoughts about Hurwood and Friend strike me as totally accurate. Even the "TMI" about Friend's past -- he was a very nasty character.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: On Stranger Tides Question #8 ~ Hurwood and Friend
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:06 pm 
JDZ Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:13 pm
Posts: 12379
Location: The Left Coast
TimPowers wrote:
Buster, I like your theme music! I don't actually listen to music as I write -- if it's good, I'd stop writing to listen to it -- but I often have some song or bit of music that I associate with a book. I can't remember what it might have been for On Stranger Tides! -- but it's generally pretty random. At one time or another it's been "Old Man River" by Paul Robeson, various Pet Shop Boys songs, various Dylan songs ... Wagner's Tannhauser Overture ... even things from Marx Brothers movies!

All these thoughts about Hurwood and Friend strike me as totally accurate. Even the "TMI" about Friend's past -- he was a very nasty character.

Yes, you drew him quite well. His nastiness was very clearly written.



_________________________________________________________
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: On Stranger Tides Question #8 ~ Hurwood and Friend
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:48 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:43 pm
Posts: 10376
Location: Austin
And an excellent villian he was. The TMI regarding Friend just made him creepier, slimier with no redeeming quatlities. While Hurwood was a good villian all on his onsies, Friend's evilness allowed you to have a shred of compassion for Hurwood. Is there a sliding scale of villainousness? :lol:



_________________________________________________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -
Wow! What a ride!
Offline
 Profile  
 
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 Page 1 of 1 [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


phpBB skin developed by: John Olson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group