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 Post subject: Re: Rum Diary Question #26 ~ Why Not Yeamom?
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 5:45 pm 
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I hope that all of you will be able to suspend your expectations based on what's on the page. Bruce Robinson spent much of his career getting work he cared about sliced and diced by studio suits who thought they knew better. That’s seems to have made him more uncompromising than bitter.

I was recently reminded (even before today’s question) that HST spent decades getting rejection slips, tinkering and re-writing TRD to cater to the whims of editors and others. Who knows how close or how far from his original vision the published pages may be. A lot of TRD reads liked a tamed and domesticated version of HST to me, you have to read between the lines to find the humor, absurdity and righteous anger.

The film really isn’t like musical chairs with all the remaining characters scrambling for Yeamon's bits. But in few respects, some of you are not far off. Ironically, for me, scrapping Yeamon crystallized the remaining characters… scrubbed the murkiness away, freed their essence and made them more pure. Taking away Yeamom does make Kemp a stronger protagonist. For me, Yeamon fit the classic definition of an antihero more than Kemp fit the classic definition of a hero. Yeamon did bad but also fought bad things, at least he did. Kemp for the most part didn’t. He observed and reacted. That’s a great place to start, but a lousy place to end.

Taking away Yeamon also allows the politics to bloom. They’re there on the pages, but struggling for sunlight. Without Yeamon it becomes less about who gets the girl and more about why the girl was important, what she symbolizes. What’s important in life. What defines a man.


Last edited by dharma_bum on Sun May 16, 2010 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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 Post subject: Re: Rum Diary Question #26 ~ Why Not Yeamom?
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:33 pm 
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Wow. I am so impressed by these questions and answers. I have wandered back and forth to DZ for over a year but I have been caught recently by the excellent ideas I read here, the lucid answers etc. It is fascinating and I can't wait till I can more properly fit in.

I read TRD awhile ago and I truly had difficulty imagining how it would be transformed into a movie with a plot. I loved the book but it was highly internal, a perspective on things, not plot driven. I read Dharma Bum's comments and I think "yes, this would do it". I also read the 2006 (which we realize has been changed extensively) but even there the character focus, the action etc. was more clearly drawn.

Who knows maybe JD and HST spent much time talking about this book, and Hunter had already changed his own ideas. Sometimes it takes a very long time to look back, let the mists clear, and 'see' what it is about something you wrote that needs tweaking or even an intense re-write. Perhaps JD is honoring HST's own belated vision for his book.



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 Post subject: Re: Rum Diary Question #26 ~ Why Not Yeamom?
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:07 pm 
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fireflydances wrote:
Wow. I am so impressed by these questions and answers. I have wandered back and forth to DZ for over a year but I have been caught recently by the excellent ideas I read here, the lucid answers etc. It is fascinating and I can't wait till I can more properly fit in.

I read TRD awhile ago and I truly had difficulty imagining how it would be transformed into a movie with a plot. I loved the book but it was highly internal, a perspective on things, not plot driven. I read Dharma Bum's comments and I think "yes, this would do it". I also read the 2006 (which we realize has been changed extensively) but even there the character focus, the action etc. was more clearly drawn.

Who knows maybe JD and HST spent much time talking about this book, and Hunter had already changed his own ideas. Sometimes it takes a very long time to look back, let the mists clear, and 'see' what it is about something you wrote that needs tweaking or even an intense re-write. Perhaps JD is honoring HST's own belated vision for his book.


No worries, I think you already fit in quite nicely! If you have any questions about ONBC please feel free to ask on the board or send a pm to Liz or myself. :cool:

Can I ask what you to clarify what you said by "the 2006" in your second paragraph? Just curious.

I too have wondered how many conversations JD may have had with HST about the movie. I like to think that perhaps they had a meeting of the minds, as it were, and a shared vision of the film.



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 Post subject: Re: Rum Diary Question #26 ~ Why Not Yeamom?
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:17 pm 
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DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:
fireflydances wrote:
Wow. I am so impressed by these questions and answers. I have wandered back and forth to DZ for over a year but I have been caught recently by the excellent ideas I read here, the lucid answers etc. It is fascinating and I can't wait till I can more properly fit in.

I read TRD awhile ago and I truly had difficulty imagining how it would be transformed into a movie with a plot. I loved the book but it was highly internal, a perspective on things, not plot driven. I read Dharma Bum's comments and I think "yes, this would do it". I also read the 2006 (which we realize has been changed extensively) but even there the character focus, the action etc. was more clearly drawn.

Who knows maybe JD and HST spent much time talking about this book, and Hunter had already changed his own ideas. Sometimes it takes a very long time to look back, let the mists clear, and 'see' what it is about something you wrote that needs tweaking or even an intense re-write. Perhaps JD is honoring HST's own belated vision for his book.


No worries, I think you already fit in quite nicely! If you have any questions about ONBC please feel free to ask on the board or send a pm to Liz or myself. :cool:

Can I ask what you to clarify what you said by "the 2006" in your second paragraph? Just curious.

I too have wondered how many conversations JD may have had with HST about the movie. I like to think that perhaps they had a meeting of the minds, as it were, and a shared vision of the film.

I think firefly means the 2006 version of the script.



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 Post subject: Re: Rum Diary Question #26 ~ Why Not Yeamom?
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:20 pm 
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Quote:
Can I ask what you to clarify what you said by "the 2006" in your second paragraph? Just curious.


There is an old script dated 2006 that is wandering around the internet somewhere. I can see if I can find it again -- worth reading if nothing else. I don't think I ever read a script before and I 'believe' this was Bruce Robinson's first effort. Will see if I can find it.

(gotta hush now --- watching Libertine )



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 Post subject: Re: Rum Diary Question #26 ~ Why Not Yeamom?
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:11 pm 
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I found a TRD script. I dont know if its the 2006 version but I was able to download it. Here is the link

edit to add...it is the 2006 script.



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 Post subject: Re: Rum Diary Question #26 ~ Why Not Yeamom?
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:20 pm 
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DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:
fireflydances wrote:
Wow. I am so impressed by these questions and answers. I have wandered back and forth to DZ for over a year but I have been caught recently by the excellent ideas I read here, the lucid answers etc. It is fascinating and I can't wait till I can more properly fit in.

I read TRD awhile ago and I truly had difficulty imagining how it would be transformed into a movie with a plot. I loved the book but it was highly internal, a perspective on things, not plot driven. I read Dharma Bum's comments and I think "yes, this would do it". I also read the 2006 (which we realize has been changed extensively) but even there the character focus, the action etc. was more clearly drawn.

Who knows maybe JD and HST spent much time talking about this book, and Hunter had already changed his own ideas. Sometimes it takes a very long time to look back, let the mists clear, and 'see' what it is about something you wrote that needs tweaking or even an intense re-write. Perhaps JD is honoring HST's own belated vision for his book.


No worries, I think you already fit in quite nicely! If you have any questions about ONBC please feel free to ask on the board or send a pm to Liz or myself. :cool:

Can I ask what you to clarify what you said by "the 2006" in your second paragraph? Just curious.

I too have wondered how many conversations JD may have had with HST about the movie. I like to think that perhaps they had a meeting of the minds, as it were, and a shared vision of the film.

I had that thought this morning, myself……that maybe Hunter had shared with Johnny his vision of the film that might not have coincided with what the publisher’s vision of the book. And if that is the case, then it's all good. :cool:

Fireflydances, I join DITHOT in welcoming you to ONBC. :wave: Glad you joined us.

Gemini, thanks for searching that out and sharing with us. VERY :cool:



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 Post subject: Re: Rum Diary Question #26 ~ Why Not Yeamom?
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:06 pm 
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Ok, As much as I didn't want to read this whole script and ruin the film, I couldn't resist a bit here and there just to see how they handled some things. This may not even be the final script but it did answer some of my questions. I think Johnny was well aware of how Hunter felt about Kemp and Yeamon. I should have known he would come through. I will not say anything so don't worry about a spoiler. It may not be the same as the book but I have a much better feeling about the film now.



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 Post subject: Re: Rum Diary Question #26 ~ Why Not Yeamom?
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:31 pm 
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Fireflydances, I am honored to be here with you at ONBC! :cool: You are going to fit right in!

If Johnny and Hunter discussed the movie, and if they came to a meeting of the minds, that is a wonderful thing. Johnny loved and admired Hunter profoundly. He would never want to disgrace or demean him.

Nevertheless, when a movie is supposed to be an "adaptation" of the film, it disturbs me to have it portrayed as true to the original when it strays so far from the original. I guess I would like a film adaptation of a book to be a different art portrayal of the same story -- here is literature, here is how literature looks if it is put on film, exact same story, different medium.

Yeamon was an integral part of the book, his rough persona and his abusive/erotic relationship with Chenault deeply affected Kemp, and it offends my sense of integrity that he is completely removed from the movie. I don't think you can combine characters and have the same effect.

I don't doubt that it will be a beautiful movie and Johnny will shine as he always does. But it will not be true to the story in the book without Yeamon. It may reflect the spirit of the book, but it will veer off the true path somehow. And that makes me sad.

Some days I am not equipped to deal with real life. :-/


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 Post subject: Re: Rum Diary Question #26 ~ Why Not Yeamom?
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:04 am 
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nebraska wrote:
Fireflydances, I am honored to be here with you at ONBC! :cool: You are going to fit right in!

If Johnny and Hunter discussed the movie, and if they came to a meeting of the minds, that is a wonderful thing. Johnny loved and admired Hunter profoundly. He would never want to disgrace or demean him.

Nevertheless, when a movie is supposed to be an "adaptation" of the film, it disturbs me to have it portrayed as true to the original when it strays so far from the original. I guess I would like a film adaptation of a book to be a different art portrayal of the same story -- here is literature, here is how literature looks if it is put on film, exact same story, different medium.

Yeamon was an integral part of the book, his rough persona and his abusive/erotic relationship with Chenault deeply affected Kemp, and it offends my sense of integrity that he is completely removed from the movie. I don't think you can combine characters and have the same effect.

I don't doubt that it will be a beautiful movie and Johnny will shine as he always does. But it will not be true to the story in the book without Yeamon. It may reflect the spirit of the book, but it will veer off the true path somehow. And that makes me sad.

Some days I am not equipped to deal with real life. :-/

Don't get me wrong, Nebraska, I am definitely in agreement with you here but since the deed seems to be done, I am counting on Johnny to come through.



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 Post subject: Re: Rum Diary Question #26 ~ Why Not Yeamom?
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 1:29 pm 
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I have reviewed all comments here with great admiration for all the information and input, BUT, something keeps troubling me, and I guess it is the integrity of the written word. The literary contribution. So, I'm voting with Nebraska, though I will attempt to see the film with an open mind! I did that with Dillinger, somewhat successfully.


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 Post subject: Re: Rum Diary Question #26 ~ Why Not Yeamom?
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:02 pm 
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I've been trying to remember a movie that lived up to the book and I'm drawing a blank. If I really like a book and become invested in it, I think it's impossible for me to love the movie as much. There is just so much more you can do with the written word than you can do in a 2 hour film. On the other hand, I have seen movies I liked and then not wanted to read the book becuase it would probably make me like the movie less. :lol: I did read the script (thanks for the link Gemini and Fireflydances!) and while we don't know for sure how much may have changed since the original draft in 2006, I do feel it does the book justice. Which ever way this one turns out, I just hope we get to see the darn thing! :bluecar:



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 Post subject: Re: Rum Diary Question #26 ~ Why Not Yeamom?
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:19 pm 
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That is my great, great fear -- that we never get a chance to see this thing. When I think back to the feast of movies from all over -- independent, free-lance, trash and the best of the best-- that one could see even 20 years ago in a great variety of settings, I am sad and worried about the future. We have 'Mickey D'd" our culture, sold it downriver to Wall Street bean counters and we are reaping the woes of this -- blockbusters, 3D, sequels, and clones of clones -- so little fresh, cutting edge, weird or even likely to make one raise their eyebrows and ponder later exactly what it was that they saw. Yeah, there are some art houses hanging on by their fingernails and good things like IFC and Sundance and local film festivals -- but we need more with stable funding sources.

We the movie going public who want excellent and varied fare need to start speaking out and standing up. If TRD doesn't open here I swear I'll fight that.

(excuse me as i climb off my soapbox and go freshen up a bit)



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 Post subject: Re: Rum Diary Question #26 ~ Why Not Yeamom?
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 4:31 pm 
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A great battle was waged over The Libertine and eventually, sort of won. I agree folks need to speak up and vote with their movie tickets which of course is hard to do when a movie never makes it to the theater... It's all about the $$



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 Post subject: Re: Rum Diary Question #26 ~ Why Not Yeamom?
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:00 pm 
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Gone With The Wind book/film/casting Brilliant


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