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 Post subject: Johnny Question #3 ~ Collaborations
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:53 am 
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Today is the final question of our Autumn Authors discussion. :bawl: It was fun to change things up a bit and we appreciate your participation and wonderful answers! :thanks!: We will be back with our first Alice tidbits on December 14 :hatterspin: but feel free to keep this discussion going on any of the questions about our Autumn Authors. :cool:

What is your favorite Burton/Depp collaboration? Why?



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 Post subject: Re: Johnny Question #3 ~ Collaborations
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:32 am 
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Sleepy Hollow. I love the way Johnny portrayed the character of Ichabod Crane.



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 Post subject: Re: Johnny Question #3 ~ Collaborations
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:33 am 
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Sweeney. Primarily because both Tim and Johnny leapt so far outside their comfort zones and pulled it off with flying colors. As a singer, I wholly appreciated the difficult challenge of attacking Sondheim. Not only for the singers, who were mostly untrained, but for a director. His work is not easily translated to cinema.

I am no fan of blood and guts. In fact, I avoid such films like the plaque. Yet I surprised myself, when in the end, as the camera pulled away from that final scene, I felt so deeply moved. Testament not only to a director's vision, but to some of the finest performances I've witnessed on screen. Tim's vision of the bloody horrors Sweeney took part in was poetic. The blood was almost lyrical. That final scene was one of the most beautiful I've ever seen on film...Sweeney's blood pouring out over his wife, mixing with hers. Together at last in death. It had a sort of twisted Romeo and Juliet quality to it.

And Johnny's vocal portrayal of Sweeney was astounding. Raw, highly charged, deeply emotional. This from a man who had barely sung in the shower! Again, absolutely amazing, to take on the challenge of such a difficult score without trained vocal chops. They were all amazing.

It's not a movie I can watch as often as, say, Sleepy Hollow. It is horrific and gruesome and deeply tortured and beyond the usual Tim/Johnny darkness. But I count the movie as their very finest collaboration.



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 Post subject: Re: Johnny Question #3 ~ Collaborations
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:06 pm 
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Sweetchia, I love your answer about ST. For many reasons, I believe this was a once-in-a-lifetime achievement for both of them. Perhpas Johnny most of all. To sing, not just simply to sing but to sing one of the most difficult musicals ever written (experts say), what an accomplishment! Everything you said rings true. :bounce:

I also liked the Corpse Bride a lot. Johnny got a lot of chance to inject some humor in his cartoon character. And then there is Edward -- unforgettable. And Willy.

It seems to me, in spite of being the same two men and there being a certain "look" to Tim's films, they have created more variety together than it appears at first glance.


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 Post subject: Re: Johnny Question #3 ~ Collaborations
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:08 pm 
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I also loved Sleepy Hollow. In fact, it's my favorite of Johnny's movies. I loved their "take" on the material from the first time I watched it, and really enjoyed Johnny's performance as Ichabod.

I have not yet seen Sweeney Todd. I was pleasantly surprised by CATCF when I finally saw it last year.

Thanks for your comments on ST, Sweetchia. They made me want to see the movie despite the blood!



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 Post subject: Re: Johnny Question #3 ~ Collaborations
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:09 pm 
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nebraska wrote:
Sweetchia, I love your answer about ST. For many reasons, I believe this was a once-in-a-lifetime achievement for both of them. Perhpas Johnny most of all. To sing, not just simply to sing but to sing one of the most difficult musicals ever written (experts say), what an accomplishment! Everything you said rings true. :bounce:

I also liked the Corpse Bride a lot. Johnny got a lot of chance to inject some humor in his cartoon character. And then there is Edward -- unforgettable. And Willy.

It seems to me, in spite of being the same two men and there being a certain "look" to Tim's films, they have created more variety together than it appears at first glance.


I agree, nebraska, that the films have more variety than it appears on first glance.



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 Post subject: Re: Johnny Question #3 ~ Collaborations
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:08 pm 
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Kate_with_a_K wrote:
I also loved Sleepy Hollow. In fact, it's my favorite of Johnny's movies. I loved their "take" on the material from the first time I watched it, and really enjoyed Johnny's performance as Ichabod.

I have not yet seen Sweeney Todd. I was pleasantly surprised by CATCF when I finally saw it last year.

Thanks for your comments on ST, Sweetchia. They made me want to see the movie despite the blood!


Oh dear. I do hope I've not given anything away for you. I assumed everyone had seen all the movies. I'm sorry.
I would recommend Sweeney. To be honest, I saw it in the theaters about 8 times and the first few times I had to watch it through my hands. I'm very sensitive to violence. That said...I really feel it is worth pushing through because it is really a beautifully done film, on so many levels. It may never be your favorite, if you are like me and really have a hard time with gore, but I really feel you will deeply appreciate it and even enjoy it, blood aside.



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 Post subject: Re: Johnny Question #3 ~ Collaborations
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:18 pm 
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Kate_with_a_K wrote:
I also loved Sleepy Hollow. In fact, it's my favorite of Johnny's movies. I loved their "take" on the material from the first time I watched it, and really enjoyed Johnny's performance as Ichabod.

I have not yet seen Sweeney Todd. I was pleasantly surprised by CATCF when I finally saw it last year.

Thanks for your comments on ST, Sweetchia. They made me want to see the movie despite the blood!



For me the blood was not so awful. Maybe when I watch movies like ST and SH I don't find the gore disgusting because I never saw a realsevered head or arm or gushers of blood going everywhere, so it all has a phony look to me -- the heads rolling in SH, for instance, made me laugh. :-/


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 Post subject: Re: Johnny Question #3 ~ Collaborations
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:30 pm 
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nebraska wrote:
Kate_with_a_K wrote:
I also loved Sleepy Hollow. In fact, it's my favorite of Johnny's movies. I loved their "take" on the material from the first time I watched it, and really enjoyed Johnny's performance as Ichabod.

I have not yet seen Sweeney Todd. I was pleasantly surprised by CATCF when I finally saw it last year.

Thanks for your comments on ST, Sweetchia. They made me want to see the movie despite the blood!



For me the blood was not so awful. Maybe when I watch movies like ST and SH I don't find the gore disgusting because I never saw a realsevered head or arm or gushers of blood going everywhere, so it all has a phony look to me -- the heads rolling in SH, for instance, made me laugh. :-/


Oh yes...I do think it should be pointed out that the blood in Sweeney is very stylistic. It looks more like paint, than blood. It's bright red and thick, like paint. That along with all the singing, eases the horror and gore content a bit.



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 Post subject: Re: Johnny Question #3 ~ Collaborations
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:38 pm 
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Kate_with_a_K wrote:
I also loved Sleepy Hollow. In fact, it's my favorite of Johnny's movies. I loved their "take" on the material from the first time I watched it, and really enjoyed Johnny's performance as Ichabod.

I have not yet seen Sweeney Todd. I was pleasantly surprised by CATCF when I finally saw it last year.

Thanks for your comments on ST, Sweetchia. They made me want to see the movie despite the blood!


The blood in ST is a lot like the blood in Sleepy Hollow. Just stylized and squirts all over Johnny in both. I can't stand blood in movies, but neither of these two films bothered me at all.



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 Post subject: Re: Johnny Question #3 ~ Collaborations
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:49 pm 
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shadowydog wrote:
Kate_with_a_K wrote:
I also loved Sleepy Hollow. In fact, it's my favorite of Johnny's movies. I loved their "take" on the material from the first time I watched it, and really enjoyed Johnny's performance as Ichabod.

I have not yet seen Sweeney Todd. I was pleasantly surprised by CATCF when I finally saw it last year.

Thanks for your comments on ST, Sweetchia. They made me want to see the movie despite the blood!


The blood in ST is a lot like the blood in Sleepy Hollow. Just stylized and squirts all over Johnny in both. I can't stand blood in movies, but neither of these two films bothered me at all.


Yes. Too true. That is rather comical. For me, more than blood, violence is very difficult to digest. While the act of slashing a throat is violent and quite bloody, there is something twisted, perverse and even poetic about singing such beautiful melodies as you kill someone. It's so unrealistic, that is eases the violent nature of the scenes, making it easier to watch.



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 Post subject: Re: Johnny Question #3 ~ Collaborations
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:16 pm 
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sweetchia wrote:
nebraska wrote:
Kate_with_a_K wrote:
I also loved Sleepy Hollow. In fact, it's my favorite of Johnny's movies. I loved their "take" on the material from the first time I watched it, and really enjoyed Johnny's performance as Ichabod.

I have not yet seen Sweeney Todd. I was pleasantly surprised by CATCF when I finally saw it last year.

Thanks for your comments on ST, Sweetchia. They made me want to see the movie despite the blood!



For me the blood was not so awful. Maybe when I watch movies like ST and SH I don't find the gore disgusting because I never saw a realsevered head or arm or gushers of blood going everywhere, so it all has a phony look to me -- the heads rolling in SH, for instance, made me laugh. :-/


Oh yes...I do think it should be pointed out that the blood in Sweeney is very stylistic. It looks more like paint, than blood. It's bright red and thick, like paint. That along with all the singing, eases the horror and gore content a bit.


I think I read somewhere that it was actually Karo syrup dyed orange. Orange because it showed the right color on screen. Hope I'm not too far off topic at this point. You ladies are making me look forward to seeing ST!!



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 Post subject: Re: Johnny Question #3 ~ Collaborations
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:51 pm 
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Kate_with_a_K wrote:

I think I read somewhere that it was actually Karo syrup dyed orange. Orange because it showed the right color on screen. Hope I'm not too far off topic at this point. You ladies are making me look forward to seeing ST!!


I think I read that too. You will have to see it and tell us what you think.



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 Post subject: Re: Johnny Question #3 ~ Collaborations
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:23 pm 
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Variety, yes. There is a certain atmospheric quality that all of his movies have. But the variety is definitely there. I see a big difference between Sleepy Hollow, CATCF, Ed Wood, Edward Scissorhands, Sweeney Todd and Corpse Bride.

And Sweeney was no less than a triumph and a masterpiece, IMHO, for all the reasons previously mentioned here. And about the blood in ST. Blood was a big part of the stage version I saw the year the movie came out. And it was also done very stylistically. I think one needs to keep in mind that it is a story about a barber who cuts throats. And I agree with sweetchia's comment about it being poetically perverse that a barber would be singing beautiful songs while cutting a man's throat. I remember laughing nervously during my first viewing.

Kate_with_a_K you must see it! And now I am feeling a strong desire to see it again. Maybe we’ll have a showing for the in-laws after dinner tomorrow night. ;-)

Ooops. Forgot to answer the question. I love them all (Corpse Bride not as much). But my favorite has to be Sweeney Todd--I think mostly because I loved the music--especially Johnny's voice. I've seen 4 versions of Sweeney Todd now. And the musical interpretation by Tim is by far my favorite.

Edit: I just want to add that I think Tim is a genius. :notworthy: He's got good taste and good instincts too. :grin:



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 Post subject: Re: Johnny Question #3 ~ Collaborations
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:01 pm 
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It is hard for me to pick just one favorite - I loved the way Johnny portrayed Ichabod with all his facial expressions. And of course CATCF was such a change of pace with the smile. But my favorite right now is Sweeny Todd. As sweetchia posted - it was far out of Tim and Johnny's comfort zone. I am beginning to wonder if there is any limit to their comfort zone. Johnny's singing was wonderful and Tim's imagination with the story was great. They are really a duo with no bounds.
It is fascinating that the Depp/Burton team can take a story that has been told several times and make it all new again!!


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