Loser's Town Question #8 ~ The Women of Loser's Town

by Daniel Depp

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Re: Loser's Town Question #8 ~ The Women of Loser's Town

Unread postby RamblinRebel » Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:03 am

Allison -
gemini wrote: She lived too risky for a mom with a kid. I think Danny wanted her to be a good person in a bad predicament but she would have to be blind to end up in that many bad relationships. Not realistic.
Gemini - I agree with you completely. I never bought into the Allison character for exactly that reason. A caring mother would take her kid and get out of that situation, somehow, someway, whatever it took. Because she didn't, I felt no compasion for her. I only ended up feeling sorry for her son.

Unlike most people here, I actually found Ingrid to be more believable than Allison. Maybe because I knew a woman in real life who put on a conservative front but liked to walk on the wild side behind closed doors. :yikes: Perhaps not to Ingrid's extreme, but enough to where I can buy into the character.

Pookie - I dont' know if she's realistic, but I absolutely love her!

Mary and Dee are certainly the most "normal" and believable women in the book. I might not like what Mary is doing, but it is very realistic. She loves Spandau, and her daughter... and her ranch. I think she had pictured a "happily ever after" in her mind with Dee and Spandau living out their days on her ranch long after she's gone, and she's not yet ready to give up on that dream. While Spandau might not get the girl (Dee) at the end of the trilogy (I too think Danny is too realistic for that) I think Spandau will get the ranch, and ride off into the sunset in a lonely cowboy sort-of way.

As for the rest, I agree with what others have said - certainly written from the male (fantasy?) perspective.

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Re: Loser's Town Question #8 ~ The Women of Loser's Town

Unread postby Liz » Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:01 pm

RamblinRebel wrote:While Spandau might not get the girl (Dee) at the end of the trilogy (I too think Danny is too realistic for that) I think Spandau will get the ranch, and ride off into the sunset in a lonely cowboy sort-of way.

I can see it!

Gemini, thanks for adding Eve to the list. She seemed to have her own agenda that she was furthering by going to Voodoo Lounge with Terry. And that aspect of her seems very real to me--at least for Hollywood.
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Re: Loser's Town Question #8 ~ The Women of Loser's Town

Unread postby trygirl » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:56 pm

Everyone has made some excellent points. I agree the women are realistic from a male standpoint. Although, some of them could have been more dimensional such as Annie or Irina and too much credulity was expected with Ingrid. But I think Dee, Allison, and Pookie were my taste as far as the women characters go. Dee is the one most female readers can relate to in the book. She's just a regular person trying to do right by the people she loves. Not to mention, Dee is the last bit of normalcy Spandau has left in the world. I wanted her to salvage the marriage but I didn't resent the fact that she needed to find some happiness. Allison, on the other hand, is completely different from Dee. You get the idea that she's had to struggle more than Dee in life. She's also a single parent trying to raise a child. We also know Lee abuses her so both ladies are world's apart. Yet, I appreciated the fact that Daniel made them fiercely independent. Allison makes bad choices, but I felt a lot of compassion for her. And I liked Pookie because she's a free spirit. She might not seem real but I see her a symbol. If Bobby and Ingrid are examples of young people making bad decisions, then Pookie is at the opposite end of the spectrum.
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Re: Loser's Town Question #8 ~ The Women of Loser's Town

Unread postby fansmom » Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:52 pm

Coming in late to the discussion, the only thing I want to add is that every single one of the women seemed more realistic to me than did the women in Glass Books.

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Re: Loser's Town Question #8 ~ The Women of Loser's Town

Unread postby gemini » Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:19 pm

fansmom wrote:Coming in late to the discussion, the only thing I want to add is that every single one of the women seemed more realistic to me than did the women in Glass Books.

I agree fansmom but they certainly seemed more modern and more believable than the women in Glass Books, who were some times invincible when they should not have survived. Danny made life a bit more true where sometimes survival ends up being a crapshoot.
Somehow I forgot Ingrid in my post. Duh! She actually was believable to me. As RamblinRebel said some women like to walk on the wild side. Of course she doesn't really know Potts well enough yet to know he is a killer. Somehow I see Danny using Potts and Ingrid to show there are good and bad in all people. Even the villain of the story can fall in love and have a dream.
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Re: Loser's Town Question #8 ~ The Women of Loser's Town

Unread postby Liz » Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:31 pm

trygirl wrote:Yet, I appreciated the fact that Daniel made them fiercely independent.

This is such a good point, trygirl. I was focusing on the fact that the women fed male fantasy. But despite that, they were all very independent.

And fansmom & gemini, yes, they were much more realistic than the women of Glass Books. But I view Glass Books as a fantasy and, therefore, I don't expect as much realism.

gemini, I totally agree that Ingrid allowed us to see a some good in Potts. But we will be discussing him in more deppth later on.
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Re: Loser's Town Question #8 ~ The Women of Loser's Town

Unread postby suec » Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:28 am

fansmom wrote:Coming in late to the discussion, the only thing I want to add is that every single one of the women seemed more realistic to me than did the women in Glass Books.


I agree. :cool: (But then I was appalled by the way women were depicted in Glass Books. :ohno:)

I think the women in the the book perform various roles. They seem to add a lot of colour and richness to the book although they're also a lot more than that. I also think they help to define the men. How they interact with women is quite important and revealing about them.

As far as the male fantasy thing goes, I think it's there for a reason. Whether the male or the female takes the initiative seems to be significant and I also think it adds to the feel of the book in terms of personal interaction, as a kind of microcosm.

Darlene, I think, performs a specific function in the book which is to foreshadow the way things turn out so wrong. The encounter is entirely symbolic. Quite a positive little encounter at first turns into somethng nasty and frightening, if I remember rightly, and with her calling him a loser ringing in his ears. She's also an interesting contrast with Ingrid, who does appear to be everything that Potts could possibly ever want. But I do find it interesting that both women make the move on Potts. I think the structure of this book is fascinating. It's built up with parallels and contrasts with the characters. Spandau and Potts for instance. Dee with her mother, Ingrid with hers, with the dynamics in those two relationships reversed. Dee and Ingrid are both teachers. As I said, interesting patterns and echoes. Bobby's hanger-on girlfriend shows just what kind of world he's living in although it's obvious already.

Well, I can't type any more now so I'll try to come back later to this question.
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Re: Loser's Town Question #8 ~ The Women of Loser's Town

Unread postby Liz » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:12 am

Lots of interesting points there, suec……that went right over my head. :dunce:
You can't judge a book by its cover.

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Re: Loser's Town Question #8 ~ The Women of Loser's Town

Unread postby deppaura » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:24 pm

Suec..more, more!! I had senses, not expressed, of what you are saying. I'm fascinated by the author's mind and intent. It just amazes me. Confounds me, really when someone can create characters with specific relationships that interact and influence in so many directions. Weaving in and out and creating a "story". Thanks for your input. Actually, thanks to all of you!

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Re: Loser's Town Question #8 ~ The Women of Loser's Town

Unread postby gemini » Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:29 pm

suec wrote:
fansmom wrote:Coming in late to the discussion, the only thing I want to add is that every single one of the women seemed more realistic to me than did the women in Glass Books.


I agree. :cool: (But then I was appalled by the way women were depicted in Glass Books. :ohno:)

I think the women in the the book perform various roles. They seem to add a lot of colour and richness to the book although they're also a lot more than that. I also think they help to define the men. How they interact with women is quite important and revealing about them.

As far as the male fantasy thing goes, I think it's there for a reason. Whether the male or the female takes the initiative seems to be significant and I also think it adds to the feel of the book in terms of personal interaction, as a kind of microcosm.

Darlene, I think, performs a specific function in the book which is to foreshadow the way things turn out so wrong. The encounter is entirely symbolic. Quite a positive little encounter at first turns into somethng nasty and frightening, if I remember rightly, and with her calling him a loser ringing in his ears. She's also an interesting contrast with Ingrid, who does appear to be everything that Potts could possibly ever want. But I do find it interesting that both women make the move on Potts. I think the structure of this book is fascinating. It's built up with parallels and contrasts with the characters. Spandau and Potts for instance. Dee with her mother, Ingrid with hers, with the dynamics in those two relationships reversed. Dee and Ingrid are both teachers. As I said, interesting patterns and echoes. Bobby's hanger-on girlfriend shows just what kind of world he's living in although it's obvious already.

Well, I can't type any more now so I'll try to come back later to this question.

I see what you mean about parellels suec but I don't like where they are going.
I agree that Danny is using peoples interaction to define the characters and it is more interesting than just a description . I hate using the word negative in describing Dannys writing. I have been trying to use the word realism instead but his true life writing to me leans towards the losers and I like to think there are a few winners running around. I hated him using Darlene and everything she stood for. The only thing I got out of it was that Potts wanted something good out of life even though he feels its beyond his reach, which is why he is so taken with Ingrid. The loser mentality goes against my fondness for happy endings. I had hope for Dee but seeing what happened with my" favorite character" told me not to hope for the best.
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Re: Loser's Town Question #8 ~ The Women of Loser's Town

Unread postby Liz » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:49 pm

gemini wrote:
suec wrote:
fansmom wrote:Coming in late to the discussion, the only thing I want to add is that every single one of the women seemed more realistic to me than did the women in Glass Books.


I agree. :cool: (But then I was appalled by the way women were depicted in Glass Books. :ohno:)

I think the women in the the book perform various roles. They seem to add a lot of colour and richness to the book although they're also a lot more than that. I also think they help to define the men. How they interact with women is quite important and revealing about them.

As far as the male fantasy thing goes, I think it's there for a reason. Whether the male or the female takes the initiative seems to be significant and I also think it adds to the feel of the book in terms of personal interaction, as a kind of microcosm.

Darlene, I think, performs a specific function in the book which is to foreshadow the way things turn out so wrong. The encounter is entirely symbolic. Quite a positive little encounter at first turns into somethng nasty and frightening, if I remember rightly, and with her calling him a loser ringing in his ears. She's also an interesting contrast with Ingrid, who does appear to be everything that Potts could possibly ever want. But I do find it interesting that both women make the move on Potts. I think the structure of this book is fascinating. It's built up with parallels and contrasts with the characters. Spandau and Potts for instance. Dee with her mother, Ingrid with hers, with the dynamics in those two relationships reversed. Dee and Ingrid are both teachers. As I said, interesting patterns and echoes. Bobby's hanger-on girlfriend shows just what kind of world he's living in although it's obvious already.

Well, I can't type any more now so I'll try to come back later to this question.

I see what you mean about parellels suec but I don't like where they are going.
I agree that Danny is using peoples interaction to define the characters and it is more interesting than just a description . I hate using the word negative in describing Dannys writing. I have been trying to use the word realism instead but his true life writing to me leans towards the losers and I like to think there are a few winners running around. I hated him using Darlene and everything she stood for. The only thing I got out of it was that Potts wanted something good out of life even though he feels its beyond his reach, which is why he is so taken with Ingrid. The loser mentality goes against my fondness for happy endings. I had hope for Dee but seeing what happened with my" favorite character" told me not to hope for the best.

The more we discuss the book, the more I appreciate Daniel's story weaving. We will be discussing his writing style at a later date.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Re: Loser's Town Question #8 ~ The Women of Loser's Town

Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:03 pm

I agree, Liz. You all are bringing out aspects of the story and the characters that would never have occurred to me. Nice job!! :cool:
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Re: Loser's Town Question #8 ~ The Women of Loser's Town

Unread postby suec » Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:34 am

Thanks Liz and deppaura!

The loser mentality goes against my fondness for happy endings. I had hope for Dee but seeing what happened with my" favorite character" told me not to hope for the best.


gemini, I'm a noir fan, so I'm quite happy with unhappy endings... but I see what you're saying here. It is a bit grim and bleak...

I woke up this morning with a half-remembered quote from a Toni Morrison book in my head, which goes something like, a guy saying there are 3 things to look for in a woman: good conversation, good sex, and good food; and if a woman has 2 of those, to marry her. I guess that is what Daniel is showing us about Dee, Ingrid and Allison. The first time I read the chapter about Dee, I didn't find it all that interesting. I suppose I thought Daniel was taking a long time to show why and how David is on his own. But I think now that he's showing us 3 women who are all pretty ideal for their respective guys and they offer a chance for personal happiness and fulfilness. I think they are probably realistic enough to suit their purpose. I guess I know someone like Dee, and I definitely know someone like Allison, roughly. Ingrid has me scratching my head a bit. I guess with her she's part of the appearance/reality theme too. I would also say kudos to Daniel for so many female characters and are so distinctive and strong in their own ways
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Re: Loser's Town Question #8 ~ The Women of Loser's Town

Unread postby Liz » Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:03 pm

suec wrote:I would also say kudos to Daniel for so many female characters and are so distinctive and strong in their own ways

I've been feeling that way too. So I'll add my :applause2: to Daniel for the same thing.
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Re: Loser's Town Question #8 ~ The Women of Loser's Town

Unread postby Peachy » Sun May 03, 2009 10:19 am

Liz said
Ingrid was another one I could not relate to. I guess she is the poster child for “opposites attract”. She seemed like a very sweet, giving person. She seemed very confident in herself—too confident in her ability to handle Potts. I never would have taken the risks that she did. I also don’t think that her living arrangements with her mother and what that entails would allow her the freedom that it did—to work and to have any kind of relationship with a man.


I was puzzled too about Ingrid, but then when I read your comments, it dawned on me that perhaps it is precisely because of her lack of freedom that she hooks up with Potts - she is not really looking for a long-term relationship, or rather she is but she knows it wouldn't fit in with the demands of her life, therefore she take the only opportunity she has to meet someone. Thinking about it it's quite sad really, for Ingrid, however at least it is a potentially positive for Potts.
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