Glass Books Question #18 ~ Two Meanings?

by Gordon Dahlquist

Moderator: Liz

User avatar
DeppInTheHeartOfTexas
Posts: 10378
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:43 pm
Location: Austin

Status: Offline

Re: Glass Books Question #18 ~ Two Meanings?

Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:48 am

That's quite alright, theresa! That is what makes a good discussion! :cool:
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -
Wow! What a ride!

User avatar
fansmom
Posts: 2059
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:50 pm
Location: Olney, Maryland

Status: Offline

Re: Glass Books Question #18 ~ Two Meanings?

Unread postby fansmom » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:48 am

Theresa wrote:Then again...perhaps Dahlquist is of the same opinion as J.R.R. Tolkien on the subject of allegory....

JRR Tolkien, from the forward to The Lord of the Rings:

…I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history, true or feigned, with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse ‘applicability’ with ‘allegory’; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author. (The Fellowship of the Ring 10-11)

Or just possibly I am playing devil's advocate here? :grin:
I've always said that Tolkien didn't know what he was writing about there. When during WWII, you write an epic about a battle of good versus evil, and you name some of your bad guys Nazguls while your country is fighting Nazis, clearly there are parallels to be drawn.

Freud said a cigar in anyone else's mouth was a phallic symbol, but for him it was just a cigar. Yeah, right.

I wrote a novel for more than a year before I realized the parallels to my own life, and then I stopped.

User avatar
Liz
ONBC Moderator
Posts: 12971
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:13 pm
Location: The Left Coast

Status: Offline

Re: Glass Books Question #18 ~ Two Meanings?

Unread postby Liz » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:28 am

You shouldn’t have stopped, fansmom.

Love the Freudian quote!
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

User avatar
Beatrix
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:28 pm

Status: Offline

Re: Glass Books Question #18 ~ Two Meanings?

Unread postby Beatrix » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:07 pm

These answers are awesome. "The perversion of religious rituals and ideals" seemed somewhat obvious. I noticed this when the drawings were described and when Miss Temple uses the control phrase on Colonel Aspiche. She explains the phrase contains a role/biblical metaphor. So there goes the allegory for me. That's all I've got. :blush:

User avatar
DeppInTheHeartOfTexas
Posts: 10378
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:43 pm
Location: Austin

Status: Offline

Re: Glass Books Question #18 ~ Two Meanings?

Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:34 pm

Beatrix, I had forgotten the connection between the control phrase and the biblical references. Good catch! :cool:
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -

Wow! What a ride!

User avatar
suec
Posts: 1381
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:57 pm
Location: uk

Status: Offline

Re: Glass Books Question #18 ~ Two Meanings?

Unread postby suec » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:34 pm

Fansom, I really liked your interpretation. I was thinking along vaguely similar lines, I guess, because the book reminds me of Perfume in some ways: the adulation for a murderer because they are duped by his scent; the obscenity of the father who embraces him on the scaffold when he is wearing the scent from his daughter, that kind of thing. The way people are fooled and duped. That's what I see in this book and think religion is part of that in that it is used by the Cabal to con the audience. And sex sells too, of course.

(BTW, I don't know what the female equivalent of a phallic symbol is called, but I'd say that the urn in the garden into which Chang lowers himself is a good example. As could be the celestial temple.) I think the sex and religious references are also to do with creation. The Comte tries to achieve his own creation but it is perverted and unnatural and hence ultimately destructive. Perhaps that is what the celestial temple is about - he has tampered with something that is the woman's preserve, and God's too, depending on one's stance, so he creates a kind of Frankenstein's monster in duplicate.

I didn't amswer the question about the Process and art, because I didn't know the answer, but it seems to me that art is creative and the Process is not.

For me, the fragmented picture is very symbolic - are there 13 unlucky pieces? can't remember now - in that a cliche we have is seeing the "big picture" and thus understanding the full story, and that is one thing the characters can't do until the end of the story, because with their different fragmented narratives, they only know their bits until they share knowledge. And the other characters have no idea what is really happening to them also. They are victims but buy into the rubbish they are told willingly, and destroy themselves along the way. And so the picture is fragmented.

I haven't got my thoughts clear on this question at all, which is why I've taken a mighty slow time about tackling it and it's a bit of a ramble still.
"Luck... inspiration... both only really happen to you when you empty your heart of ambition, purpose, and plan; when you give yourself, completely, to the golden, fate-filled moment."

User avatar
Liz
ONBC Moderator
Posts: 12971
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:13 pm
Location: The Left Coast

Status: Offline

Re: Glass Books Question #18 ~ Two Meanings?

Unread postby Liz » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:48 pm

But an interesting ramble it is, suec—especially this part: :-O

suec wrote:(BTW, I don't know what the female equivalent of a phallic symbol is called, but I'd say that the urn in the garden into which Chang lowers himself is a good example. As could be the celestial temple.) I think the sex and religious references are also to do with creation. The Comte tries to achieve his own creation but it is perverted and unnatural and hence ultimately destructive. Perhaps that is what the celestial temple is about - he has tampered with something that is the woman's preserve, and God's too, depending on one's stance, so he creates a kind of Frankenstein's monster in duplicate.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

User avatar
suec
Posts: 1381
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:57 pm
Location: uk

Status: Offline

Re: Glass Books Question #18 ~ Two Meanings?

Unread postby suec » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:10 pm

:lol: Thanks Liz!
Having dipped into the computers thing, I came back here to do some editing and continue said ramble. It was something to do with the theme of control but as I've just got to a mental block I'll just creep away again. It might come to me.
"Luck... inspiration... both only really happen to you when you empty your heart of ambition, purpose, and plan; when you give yourself, completely, to the golden, fate-filled moment."

User avatar
nebraska
Posts: 29202
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 8:15 pm
Location: near Omaha

Status: Offline

Re: Glass Books Question #18 ~ Two Meanings?

Unread postby nebraska » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:26 pm

suec wrote:(BTW, I don't know what the female equivalent of a phallic symbol is called, but I'd say that the urn in the garden into which Chang lowers himself is a good example. As could be the celestial temple.) I think the sex and religious references are also to do with creation. The Comte tries to achieve his own creation but it is perverted and unnatural and hence ultimately destructive. Perhaps that is what the celestial temple is about - he has tampered with something that is the woman's preserve, and God's too, depending on one's stance, so he creates a kind of Frankenstein's monster in duplicate.
[/quote]

Sue C, I am absolutely speechless. This is brilliant! :notworthy:

User avatar
suec
Posts: 1381
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:57 pm
Location: uk

Status: Offline

Re: Glass Books Question #18 ~ Two Meanings?

Unread postby suec » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:37 pm

Gosh. Thanks nebraska :blush:
"Luck... inspiration... both only really happen to you when you empty your heart of ambition, purpose, and plan; when you give yourself, completely, to the golden, fate-filled moment."


Return to “The Glass Books of the Dream Eaters”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests