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 Post subject: Re: Master and Margarita Tidbit #8 - State Atheism
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:57 pm 
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winona wrote:
shadowydog wrote:
Interesting discussion. To me separation of church and state hinges on the thesis that no religion has a right to impose their church teachings on the entire country as an absolute law of the land. I see this happening time and again. Not all hold the same religious beliefs and all have the freedom to practice their religion under our constitution. And they can impose their rules and beliefs on THEIR members, but not on all the rest of us who do not hold these same beliefs. If that makes sense.

I studied American history and much of our early immigration was driven by religious groups trying to escape persecution by other religious groups. This is what was behind the constitutional clause on freedom of religion.

An example I can relate to was the mandatory prayer in public schools. I felt horror when I had to stand and lead the class in the Protestant version of the Lord's Prayer which I was taught by my church was heresy and I can really remember the anguish of a Jew who was required to stand and lead the class in that prayer. :sad:

To this day, I will never understand how my Catholic mother, had a heathen for a husband, I grew up with separation of church and state.. Dads family was here first :hypnotic: No parent would commit to my Brother and myself, as to what we should believe in, I gave it all a shot, all of it! Dad just had a"gift"


?? A gift? I don't understand. But your parents sound like mine. My mom was a "relaxed" Catholic and my dad was an agnostic. He was pretty good about not trying to turn me against the church. I think he knew better. I found my own way. And my spirituality is still evolving. But I don't want anybody to tell me what I should or shouldn't believe. I want the freedom to believe whatever I want. And I feel rather fortunate that I have friends from various faiths (plus some atheists), and we are all respectful towards each other. :-)



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 Post subject: Re: Master and Margarita Tidbit #8 - State Atheism
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:12 am 
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My mother's family were all from Spain where the dominance of the Catholic Church within the State created another sort of oppressive "state religion" and for many years, even in this country, my grandparents were adamantly opposed to any involvement in the Catholic Church -- they didn't marry in the Church until my mother and her siblings were adults with families of their own. My mother grew up with no sense of a proscribing faith, although later she and one sister did chose to become Catholics, the latter sister eventually becoming a nun. I have to say that my own personal experience on the basis of my mother's rather large definition of Christianity meant the we experienced a little of this, a little of that which for me was a good route. I am a proponent of freedom to worship in any way one sees fit to worship.



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 Post subject: Re: Master and Margarita Tidbit #8 - State Atheism
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:13 am 
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I am really sorry for not making it clear, I know I am not always that vocal :grin: My father was Native American...



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Because love has your face and body .....and your hands are tender and your mouth is sweet-and God has made no other eyes like yours. Walter Benton
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 Post subject: Re: Master and Margarita Tidbit #8 - State Atheism
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:18 am 
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fireflydances wrote:
My mother's family were all from Spain where the dominance of the Catholic Church within the State created another sort of oppressive "state religion" and for many years, even in this country, my grandparents were adamantly opposed to any involvement in the Catholic Church -- they didn't marry in the Church until my mother and her siblings were adults with families of their own. My mother grew up with no sense of a proscribing faith, although later she and one sister did chose to become Catholics, the latter sister eventually becoming a nun. I have to say that my own personal experience on the basis of my mother's rather large definition of Christianity meant the we experienced a little of this, a little of that which for me was a good route. I am a proponent of freedom to worship in any way one sees fit to worship.

Wow! My Grandmother got booted from The Church for helping her sister elope! Good thing for me, she was to join the sisterhood
,



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 Post subject: Re: Master and Margarita Tidbit #8 - State Atheism
PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:06 pm 
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drama surrounding religion still continues......whatever the drama.

It is because people have different religious beliefs that the drama arises, and that is, to my mind, the most compelling reason to separate church and state. Even within any given religion there are varying interpretations of doctrine, and friction arises. Atheistic is not the same as amoral, or indicative of a lack of spirituality.
Frankly, I don't believe the government should be telling me what to think. I also don't choose to have an organised religion tell me what to think.That is not the same thing as believing there shouldn't be limits to what is acceptable behavior.


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 Post subject: Re: Master and Margarita Tidbit #8 - State Atheism
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:35 pm 
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Going back to SD's example of mandatory school prayer, I can understand it being a good thing that mandatory prayer has been ended. But I think it is wrong to forbid a child to pray. Same thing, other extreme.


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