AMF Question #17 ~ Ms. Stein & an Announcement

by Ernest Hemingway

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Parlez
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Re: AMF Question #17 ~ Ms. Stein & an Announcement

Unread postby Parlez » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:30 pm

Interesting, Liz! I never got the impression Hemingway was naive about homosexuality. He mentioned to Miss Stein on a couple of occasions that he had been approached by gay men in the past. Something about needing to carry a weapon to use against such men, to let them know in no uncertain terms where he stood. Miss Stein keeps telling him such men are either depraved monsters or misunderstood...she seems to waver in her opinons, but in each case speaks with grandiose authority. I believe she also claims that women loving women is significantly different, more noble, more natural, than men loving men. (Based on what, I'd like to know!) In any case, I think Hemingway was aware of Gertie's sexual orientation. But his tongue-in-cheek thoughts about their converstations concerning such things made me think he didn't buy her arguments in favor of homosexuality for a minute. He seemed to be saying that as corruptions go, she was trying pretty hard to corrupt him, but he was having none of it. Quite the contrary, she was turning him into a homophobe!
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Re: AMF Question #17 ~ Ms. Stein & an Announcement

Unread postby fansmom » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:56 pm

Parlez wrote:Interesting, Liz! I never got the impression Hemingway was naive about homosexuality. He mentioned to Miss Stein on a couple of occasions that he had been approached by gay men in the past. Something about needing to carry a weapon to use against such men, to let them know in no uncertain terms where he stood.
It's pages 18-19 of the searchable paperback edition on Amazon; toward the end of the chapter called "Miss Stein Instructs." I'd say he was pretty knowledgable about male homosexuality, at least.

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Re: AMF Question #17 ~ Ms. Stein & an Announcement

Unread postby Liz » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:31 pm

fansmom wrote:
Parlez wrote:Interesting, Liz! I never got the impression Hemingway was naive about homosexuality. He mentioned to Miss Stein on a couple of occasions that he had been approached by gay men in the past. Something about needing to carry a weapon to use against such men, to let them know in no uncertain terms where he stood.
It's pages 18-19 of the searchable paperback edition on Amazon; toward the end of the chapter called "Miss Stein Instructs." I'd say he was pretty knowledgable about male homosexuality, at least.

Male, yes. That part was obvious to me. And he was quite concerned about it in that he indicated that he might have been violated. But we're talking about women here. I'm not quite sure he processed it in the same way. Here is a quote from an article I read from the Washington Post when I was researching my opinion:

He writes favorably about Stein at first -- she, too, had encouraged him in his apprenticeship -- but turns on her sharply when an overheard conversation underscores her lesbianism: "She got to look like a Roman emperor and that was fine if you liked your women to look like Roman emperors."

Homosexuality scared Hemingway, probably because he feared it in himself, and he used it as a real or imagined weapon against others, none to crueler effect than Scott Fitzgerald, who had been extraordinarily munificent to him, shouting his praises to his own editor, the celebrated Maxwell Perkins, who soon took Hemingway on. But when the two writers met in Paris, Hemingway saw Fitzgerald as "a man then who looked like a boy with a face between handsome and pretty . . . and a delicate long-lipped Irish mouth that, on a girl, would have been the mouth of a beauty." Then he slips in the dagger: "The mouth worried you until you knew him and then it worried you more." And: "he was cynical and funny and very jolly and charming and endearing, even if you were careful about anyone becoming endearing."


The full article:

You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Re: AMF Question #17 ~ Ms. Stein & an Announcement

Unread postby gemini » Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:40 pm

The article that you have your quote from is really worth reading in its entirety. Thanks Liz. I agreed with much of what was said about Hemingway as well as his review of A Movable Feast. The articles take about Hemingway's views on homosexuality applies not only to Stein but maybe Fitzgerald. It may be another answer for the AMF question 18 on Zelda and why Hemingway dislikes her so much.
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Re: AMF Question #17 ~ Ms. Stein & an Announcement

Unread postby Liz » Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:43 pm

gemini wrote:The articles take about Hemingway's views on homosexuality applies not only to Stein but maybe Fitzgerald. It may be another answer for the AMF question 18 on Zelda and why Hemingway dislikes her so much.

Good point! I hadn't taken it that far.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.


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