ONBC TCD Poll - Is Irene Adler the Devil or Not?

by Arturo Perez-Reverte

Moderator: Liz

Who's the Devil?

Poll ended at Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:53 am

Is Irene Adler the Devil?
3
19%
Is Corso the Devil?
1
6%
Neither?
12
75%
 
Total votes: 16
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Liz
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ONBC TCD Poll - Is Irene Adler the Devil or Not?

Unread postby Liz » Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:53 am

Who is the devil....

Irene Adler?

Corso?

Neither?


Just a clarification.....I am referring to Irene Adler & Corso in the book, not the film characters.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Re: ONBC TCD Poll - Is Irene Adler the Devil or Not?

Unread postby DarkAngel » Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:05 am

It has been a while since I read the book, but I got the feeling, that none of both is the devil. Irene, at least in my opinion, it´s a fallen angel or something like that... not a human..but not the devil himself... I wish I could tell you why, but like I said, it´s too long ago that I read the book. But I´m following the book discussion since some days... it´s great, I really should re-read the book...
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Re: ONBC TCD Poll - Is Irene Adler the Devil or Not?

Unread postby nebraska » Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:30 am

Just for clarification, are we talking Irene Adler as in the book or are we talking the Girl from the movie or does it matter? I am not sure I have the same opinion of both........or maybe I don't really have an opinion at all, I am not sure. :-?

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Re: ONBC TCD Poll - Is Irene Adler the Devil or Not?

Unread postby Parlez » Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:30 am

I was hoping for a 'weird chick' option for Irene. :lol: I would've gone with that. Instead it was 'neither' for moi. Which of course begs the quesiton: if not Irene or Corso, who?? Is the devil crafted into the story, or is P-R once again leading the reader to jump to his or her own personal, intertextual, and potentially wrong, conclusions...??
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Re: ONBC TCD Poll - Is Irene Adler the Devil or Not?

Unread postby gemini » Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:05 pm

Well I don't think anyone is in doubt how I voted. I always thought the girl eased him into it but was always truthful to Corso because he had to choose of his own free will.
She said "she" picked him for his knowledge and lucidity. She did not want someone fooled but someone aware of his choice. She answered his questions with knowing of her (the devils) past and made no attempt to hide it from him. I suppose another fallen angel would know of the devils battles but she described the events as her own and how she felt them and how she missed heaven.
I am speaking of the Irene of the book but I think Polanski agreed with me and made the Irene of the film the devil also.
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Re: ONBC TCD Poll - Is Irene Adler the Devil or Not?

Unread postby Liz » Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:38 pm

nebraska wrote:Just for clarification, are we talking Irene Adler as in the book or are we talking the Girl from the movie or does it matter? I am not sure I have the same opinion of both........or maybe I don't really have an opinion at all, I am not sure. :-?

Nebraska, I was referring to Irene Adler in the book. In the film, Polanski is just like one of us--portraying her the way he saw her in the book.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Re: ONBC TCD Poll - Is Irene Adler the Devil or Not?

Unread postby nebraska » Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:48 pm

Thank you, Liz. That helped a lot. I don't see her as the devil in the book but I do in the movie, probably because of the difference in the ending.

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Re: ONBC TCD Poll - Is Irene Adler the Devil or Not?

Unread postby Liz » Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:57 pm

Nebraska, I forgot to point out that it would be the same with Corso--Lucas only.

I see the 2 "girls" entirely differently too. I've decided that she is the devil in the movie, but not in the book.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

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Re: ONBC TCD Poll - Is Irene Adler the Devil or Not?

Unread postby Parlez » Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:51 pm

gemini wrote:Well I don't think anyone is in doubt how I voted. I always thought the girl eased him into it but was always truthful to Corso because he had to choose of his own free will.
She said "she" picked him for his knowledge and lucidity. She did not want someone fooled but someone aware of his choice. She answered his questions with knowing of her (the devils) past and made no attempt to hide it from him. I suppose another fallen angel would know of the devils battles but she described the events as her own and how she felt them and how she missed heaven.
I am speaking of the Irene of the book but I think Polanski agreed with me and made the Irene of the film the devil also.

Gemini, you've always done such a good job of defending your opinion...time and time again you've pointed to clear-cut quotes in the text and drawn logical, sensible conclusions. I would sooo agree with you if I just didn't feel it's too uncharacteristic of P-R to be either clear or logical or sensible. He's so convoluted in every other way with this story, I can't imagine him being straightforward all of a sudden about Irene being the devil. I know...it's my own personal (no doubt intertextual) conundrum showing up. It's actually the one and only area in the book where I want mystery, not clarity! :flamed:
"Belay that! ...Do something else!" ~ Hector Barbossa

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Re: ONBC TCD Poll - Is Irene Adler the Devil or Not?

Unread postby gemini » Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:32 pm

Parlez wrote:
gemini wrote:Well I don't think anyone is in doubt how I voted. I always thought the girl eased him into it but was always truthful to Corso because he had to choose of his own free will.
She said "she" picked him for his knowledge and lucidity. She did not want someone fooled but someone aware of his choice. She answered his questions with knowing of her (the devils) past and made no attempt to hide it from him. I suppose another fallen angel would know of the devils battles but she described the events as her own and how she felt them and how she missed heaven.
I am speaking of the Irene of the book but I think Polanski agreed with me and made the Irene of the film the devil also.

Gemini, you've always done such a good job of defending your opinion...time and time again you've pointed to clear-cut quotes in the text and drawn logical, sensible conclusions. I would sooo agree with you if I just didn't feel it's too uncharacteristic of P-R to be either clear or logical or sensible. He's so convoluted in every other way with this story, I can't imagine him being straightforward all of a sudden about Irene being the devil. I know...it's my own personal (no doubt intertextual) conundrum showing up. It's actually the one and only area in the book where I want mystery, not clarity! :flamed:

I wouldn't feel too bad about your opinion Parlez. Perez Reverte must not have been too straight forward about the girl because the majority of those reading here agree with you. How was your birthday?
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers



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Re: ONBC TCD Poll - Is Irene Adler the Devil or Not?

Unread postby Liz » Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:58 pm

gemini wrote:
Parlez wrote:
gemini wrote:Well I don't think anyone is in doubt how I voted. I always thought the girl eased him into it but was always truthful to Corso because he had to choose of his own free will.
She said "she" picked him for his knowledge and lucidity. She did not want someone fooled but someone aware of his choice. She answered his questions with knowing of her (the devils) past and made no attempt to hide it from him. I suppose another fallen angel would know of the devils battles but she described the events as her own and how she felt them and how she missed heaven.
I am speaking of the Irene of the book but I think Polanski agreed with me and made the Irene of the film the devil also.

Gemini, you've always done such a good job of defending your opinion...time and time again you've pointed to clear-cut quotes in the text and drawn logical, sensible conclusions. I would sooo agree with you if I just didn't feel it's too uncharacteristic of P-R to be either clear or logical or sensible. He's so convoluted in every other way with this story, I can't imagine him being straightforward all of a sudden about Irene being the devil. I know...it's my own personal (no doubt intertextual) conundrum showing up. It's actually the one and only area in the book where I want mystery, not clarity! :flamed:

I wouldn't feel too bad about your opinion Parlez. Perez Reverte must not have been too straight forward about the girl because the majority of those reading here agree with you. How was your birthday?

And I keep going back and forth.

Happy belated (?) Birthday, Parlez!
:cake:
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Re: ONBC TCD Poll - Is Irene Adler the Devil or Not?

Unread postby Bix » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:03 pm

I just weighed in with a "Neither". I agree that Irene Adler was something other, something supernatural. But I don't think she herself was the devil. Nor do I think Corso was the devil. I like the "fallen angel" and "chosen" ideas that some of you have proposed over the course of the discussion.

I also wanted to say that all of you who chose to stuggle with this discussion are to be commended. I really didn't like this book or the movie very much and just never could get myself to do the hard thinking needed to answer the questions. But I really enjoyed reading what all of you had to say. And I do feel like I wimped out on this one.

Anyway, thank you again, Liz and DITHOT and everybody, for another mind-bending discussion.
Live! Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death! ~Auntie Mame

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Re: ONBC TCD Poll - Is Irene Adler the Devil or Not?

Unread postby Liz » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:18 pm

Bix wrote:I just weighed in with a "Neither". I agree that Irene Adler was something other, something supernatural. But I don't think she herself was the devil. Nor do I think Corso was the devil. I like the "fallen angel" and "chosen" ideas that some of you have proposed over the course of the discussion.

I also wanted to say that all of you who chose to stuggle with this discussion are to be commended. I really didn't like this book or the movie very much and just never could get myself to do the hard thinking needed to answer the questions. But I really enjoyed reading what all of you had to say. And I do feel like I wimped out on this one.

Anyway, thank you again, Liz and DITHOT and everybody, for another mind-bending discussion.

Bix, don’t worry about wimping out. If I had not had to lead this discussion, I would have bailed after the first 50 pages and donated the book to the library. But I’m really glad I had to read it because I REALLY enjoyed the discussion. :cool:
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Re: ONBC TCD Poll - Is Irene Adler the Devil or Not?

Unread postby Parlez » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:49 pm

Thank you, Liz, for the birthday wishes. And thanks, gemini, for asking about the big day - it was terrific. Kind of a moveable feast, as it were, with the concerts happening this weekend. The first pic of Johnny with his mates showed up on the Zone on Thursday - the perfect birthday present! :heart:

I also want to say thanks again to the Mods & 'Mantras for helping me hang in there through this book discussion. If it weren't for you guys, I would've bailed for sure too! The questions and the responses were just so interesting - that made it all worthwhile for moi. Merci!! :frenchie:
"Belay that! ...Do something else!" ~ Hector Barbossa

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