TCD Question #25 ~ Book vs. Movie

by Arturo Perez-Reverte

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Re: TCD Question #25 ~ Book vs. Movie

Unread postby Liz » Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:19 pm

fansmom wrote:My little :thanks: in my previous post was a complete understatement. Liz and DITHOT are--as always--superb! You two rock! :hatsoff: :thanks!: :notworthy:

Fansmom, you are too kind. :cloud9:

Endora wrote:Forgot to say, just as a little thing I noticed in the film- the cafe he is drinking in by the Seine along from the Baroness's house is revealed, as he is waiting for the secretary to go for lunch, as Le Cafe d'Anjou.

Well, that's a nice little nod to the book. You are quite observant, Endora. I need to go look for that now.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

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Re: TCD Question #25 ~ Book vs. Movie

Unread postby fansmom » Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:41 pm

Liz wrote:
fansmom wrote: Note: well, there's a cool new feature of the Zone! It told me that Nebraska had added a post since I started typing.

How did it tell you that? You and Gemini posted while I responding to Nebraska, and I didn't notice that it told me that. I probably don't know where to look. I'm still learning things about the new features.

And I will take this opportunity to point out that there is an ONBC Style with our little logo at the top of the board, if you should chose to switch from the Zone style. It's easy to switch in your profile.
I was previewing my post and above it on the screen, Nebraska's post appeared, with a comment that a post had been submitted since I'd last looked, and that I might want to read it before I submitted mine.

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Re: TCD Question #25 ~ Book vs. Movie

Unread postby nebraska » Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:28 pm

A couple of you have remarked on the sex scene at the end of the movie and called it "silly" or gratuitous. Or something to that effect. As I said in my first post, I think the seduction and his walking into the castle alone aren't necessary so much fact as graphics depicting the fate of Corso's soul.

I think the Girl laughing and tossing her hair while those green eyes positively flash with malevolence is chilling. There is so much of the conquerer in that look, so much wicked victory........at one point Corso's face is twisted with terror. He gets it, he knows what he has done, he understands the consequences of selling himself to the devil. I am not sure if all of that could have been demonstrated quite so well with another scene........so while I have never "liked" that scene (it is pretty darned crude after all), I finally think I know what they were trying to say with it.

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Re: TCD Question #25 ~ Book vs. Movie

Unread postby Buster » Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:47 pm

I suspect it must be very difficult to portray a character who has been a "victim" (please be gentle here) of an author's self-indulgence.
Perez-Reverte had a glorious time showing all he knows. Attempting to bring his characters to film must have been truly fun.

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Re: TCD Question #25 ~ Book vs. Movie

Unread postby Liz » Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:49 pm

nebraska wrote:A couple of you have remarked on the sex scene at the end of the movie and called it "silly" or gratuitous. Or something to that effect. As I said in my first post, I think the seduction and his walking into the castle alone aren't necessary so much fact as graphics depicting the fate of Corso's soul.

I think the Girl laughing and tossing her hair while those green eyes positively flash with malevolence is chilling. There is so much of the conquerer in that look, so much wicked victory........at one point Corso's face is twisted with terror. He gets it, he knows what he has done, he understands the consequences of selling himself to the devil. I am not sure if all of that could have been demonstrated quite so well with another scene........so while I have never "liked" that scene (it is pretty darned crude after all), I finally think I know what they were trying to say with it.

Nebraska, you were posting this as I was typing up my ramblings on the ending here. Seems we are on the same wavelength.

I realize that I have spent many times watching this movie but never quite make it all the way to the end (except for maybe the first couple of times). I never seem to get past the sex scene. And I’m usually half watching it because I’m cooking or something. So now watching it again carefully after having read the ending to the book again this past week, then discussing it with all of you, the film’s ending seems so much clearer than the book’s ending.

She was the devil, seduced him (although I think he was already on his way). Then she explained to him why Balkan was unable to summon the devil and led him to find the authentic 9th engraving. Interesting how it was left on the ledge and conveniently falls just then. It was meant to fall into his hands, it seems. And I just think that Dean could not resist finding out what would happen if he went through the castle with the proper page. I think it was still about “the game” because he asks her in the car after they have sex, “Is that it? Is the game over?” And we says, “not for you,” he says in regards to the real 9th engraving, “I want it.” (And I’m remember now that this is what I thought the first time I watched the movie although I had a hard time swallowing that The Girl was the devil.) But I think he “wanted it” even more after she had her way with him. I was thinking as I was watching it, that all it took was to show her devilish (a la Exorcist) eyes one time, and you knew. And then looking at his eyes, he knew and accepted her.

And going back to the question about whether Corso actually caused the deaths (in both book and film), I think it is clear in the film that he did not murder the Baroness. But I think that his initial contract (with Balkan/Borja) signed their death warrants. I’m wondering now if there is some sort of connection here to the reader (Corso) being responsible.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Re: TCD Question #25 ~ Book vs. Movie

Unread postby Liz » Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:51 pm

fansmom wrote:
Liz wrote:
fansmom wrote: Note: well, there's a cool new feature of the Zone! It told me that Nebraska had added a post since I started typing.

How did it tell you that? You and Gemini posted while I responding to Nebraska, and I didn't notice that it told me that. I probably don't know where to look. I'm still learning things about the new features.

And I will take this opportunity to point out that there is an ONBC Style with our little logo at the top of the board, if you should chose to switch from the Zone style. It's easy to switch in your profile.
I was previewing my post and above it on the screen, Nebraska's post appeared, with a comment that a post had been submitted since I'd last looked, and that I might want to read it before I submitted mine.

I think I'm blind sometimes. I'm going to keep a sharp eye for that from now on.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Re: TCD Question #25 ~ Book vs. Movie

Unread postby Parlez » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:33 pm

So, are we reaching consensus here that the girl is the devil? In both the book and the movie?? In any case, I'm glad to find out I'm not the only one who had trouble watching that sex scene in the film... :freaked: Regardless of whether Green Eyes was Satan, or especially if she was Satan, I would've shown her final seduction of Corso with a little more sophistication, a little more finesse. But I guess a more blatant approach was called for...though I can't get over feeling that the choice to show her as the Devouring Devil Woman had more to do with Polanski's personal view of women than anything else. Considering that the actress was also his paramour seemed quite revealing; I had a hard time separating the professional Polanski from the personal one in that scene.
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Re: TCD Question #25 ~ Book vs. Movie

Unread postby Kittycat88 » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:44 pm

I have said this about 50 times by now, but I didn't like or believe ES in the role. She had the wrong physique. It was always rumored but never acknowledged that Polanski had Vanessa on the short list of possibles for the role of The Girl. Supposedly he dismissed her as too fragile looking for the role.

I cant imagine what the chemistry would have been like with VP, but we will never know.

I liked the Girl better in the book. But I like Corso better in the movie...

I wonder if Johnny knows what a Corso club he has here !! I have often daydreamed about when he is older -- 50'sh-- if Johnny would ever do another movie about the character?? Just a daydream.
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Re: TCD Question #25 ~ Book vs. Movie

Unread postby fansmom » Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:06 pm

Parlez wrote:So, are we reaching consensus here that the girl is the devil? In both the book and the movie?? In any case, I'm glad to find out I'm not the only one who had trouble watching that sex scene in the film... :freaked:
Something odd--my video of the movie was taped from TV and the sex scene was edited out. I could tell that something was missing, and thought things didn't make sense because of that, so one day when my daughter (who was then about 15) was in school, I rented the movie from Blockbuster and watched it. Sadly, that scene wasn't the missing link to make the rest of the movie hang together!

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Re: TCD Question #25 ~ Book vs. Movie

Unread postby gemini » Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:08 pm

Kittycat88 wrote:I have said this about 50 times by now, but I didn't like or believe ES in the role. She had the wrong physique. It was always rumored but never acknowledged that Polanski had Vanessa on the short list of possibles for the role of The Girl. Supposedly he dismissed her as too fragile looking for the role.

I cant imagine what the chemistry would have been like with VP, but we will never know.

I liked the Girl better in the book. But I like Corso better in the movie...

I wonder if Johnny knows what a Corso club he has here !! I have often daydreamed about when he is older -- 50'sh-- if Johnny would ever do another movie about the character?? Just a daydream.

Kitty, I can sure see the film having a lot more chemistry with Vanessa as the girl and the sex scene would have probably been a lot better but I really can't see her being the devil. It might have made his decision to go to the devil a bit more accepting. :grin:
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Re: TCD Question #25 ~ Book vs. Movie

Unread postby Buster » Fri Aug 29, 2008 5:10 pm

Perez-Reverte's posturing was annoying. Too many of his references smacked of "I know something you don't -nyah nyah".
Don't get me wrong - I love arcane references, and am always delighted to pursue the nearest tangent- but somehow many of his forays into the intellectual came across as Google searches.
However, his book inspired me to re-read The Three Musketeers, which is, as always, a joy.

Movie? I hate movies.
Honestly, I wander around, listen to the soundtrack and dialogue from two rooms away...and then come back for the big explosion scenes.
The fire at the end worked for me:)

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Re: TCD Question #25 ~ Book vs. Movie

Unread postby Liz » Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:30 pm

Parlez wrote:So, are we reaching consensus here that the girl is the devil?

I don't think we will ever know.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Re: TCD Question #25 ~ Book vs. Movie

Unread postby Parlez » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:15 pm

Liz wrote:
Parlez wrote:So, are we reaching consensus here that the girl is the devil?

I don't think we will ever know.

Well, we could take a poll. We could vote on whether we think she's the devil, or one of the devil's minions, or an angel sent from heaven, or just some really weird chick! :perplexed:
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Re: TCD Question #25 ~ Book vs. Movie

Unread postby Liz » Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:54 am

Parlez, I just took a poll. We'll see what we come up with.
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Re: TCD Question #25 ~ Book vs. Movie

Unread postby suec » Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:12 am

I thought the T3M storyline in the book was pretty silly really and didn't miss it in the film. I also thought there were too many literary references and agree with the points that have been made about that. But I like Lucas Corso immensely. He is a pretty fascinating character. And after all, the book has led to some very thought-provoking discussion here. I'm very glad it was chosen. Thanks Liz and DIDHOT, and for your questions. :applause:
I am very fond of the film. It sparked off an interest for me in film noir. I did a lot of research about that and then took the film apart screen cap by screen cap. I learned a lot from that and still have a passionate interest in seeing it in other films. So, I have to be grateful to Polanski for that inspiration. I also love Johnny in the role. I think the film is quite funny in places. I like the "I'll be damned" line sitting in front of the fire at Fargas's house when he first realises the engravings don't match. But I agree with fansmo also about the humour not being appropriate at times.
Silly bits: for me, the girl flying. Too obvious. I've also never liked the scene where Balkan interrupts the secret society, but I doubt I can justify why.
Nebraska, I like yoir interpretation of the sex scene. I think you make an excellent point there.
Is the girl the devil in the film? IMO Yes. It'll be interesting to see how the vote turns out.
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