TCD Question #1 - Fiction

by Arturo Perez-Reverte

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TCD Question #1 - Fiction

Unread postby Liz » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:47 am

Welcome to ONBC’s discussion of The Club Dumas . A warm welcome back to old friends :wave: and a big :welcome: to you newbies. :disco:

If you haven't joined us before here are a few guidelines, as it were. :captainjack:

We will post one question per day. Please try to keep your answers specific to the question of the day but also please feel free to post your response at any time to any question already posted. And the #1 Rule at ONBC...there are no wrong answers, just good ideas!

Since this is a book club discussing a book about books, we’ll start off the discussion with a few questions about books. :ONBC:


So without further ado our first question…..



From pg. 298. “In the real world, many things happen by chance, but in fiction nearly everything is logical.”

Do you agree?
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Re: TCD Question #1 - Fiction

Unread postby radwen » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:11 am

:applause2: Time for a new book discussion. I always look forward to these.

My initial response to your question was, Yes, I agree. But, I am anxious to read everyone's thoughts on this.

Only about half way through the book, by the way :blush: - so I need to keep reading :lol:
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Re: TCD Question #1 - Fiction

Unread postby Gilbert's Girl » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:22 am

Well I guess you could agree because the author of a book makes it so. He/she is in control of the story . Reality can often be much more random.

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Re: TCD Question #1 - Fiction

Unread postby teacher » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:08 am

Trying not to sound too philosophical, but sometimes the "chance" in real life is something we don't know or won't acknowledge the reasons for. (A lot left to read, just bought the book a week ago, but I'm enjoyig the tidbits and everyone's thoughts so far)
Yes, I have tricks in my pocket, I have things up my sleeve. But I am the opposite of a stage magician. He gives you illusion that has the appearance of truth. I give you truth in the pleasant disguise of illusion. - Tom Wingfield, Glass Menagerie

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Re: TCD Question #1 - Fiction

Unread postby IngridN » Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:05 pm

I agree with Corso's remark. The author is in control of the plot and by following the 3 Musketeer's story line Corso has been able to find 'Milady' Liane Taillefer and Rochefort in the town of Meung.
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Re: TCD Question #1 - Fiction

Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:14 pm

Welcome everyone, and thanks for getting us started! Keep those answers coming! :bounce:
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Re: TCD Question #1 - Fiction

Unread postby Liz » Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:55 pm

Radwen, GG, teacher and IngridN, nice to see you here.

GG and IngridN, I agree with you that because it is in the author’s control he can make all of the pieces fit. On the other hand, his story may not be “realistic”. But in the "real world", some very chance happenings can occur that catch you off guard and make you question your reality. And as I’ve said before here, I don’t really believe in chance occurrences. I believe there is a reason for everything. But as teacher said, we may not recognize the reasons at the time—or maybe ever.

Great answers so far! :cool:
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The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Re: TCD Question #1 - Fiction

Unread postby magpie » Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:04 pm

I agree, Liz, that things happen for a reason in reality. And, certainly in TCD, that holds true--the happenings seem very ordered. However, I did have trouble following the plot sometimes, too many unfamiliar elements maybe. The tidbits have helped with a lot of those.

However, I have read books that don't seem in the least logical to me! But, then again, Corso isn't in them. :grin:
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Re: TCD Question #1 - Fiction

Unread postby Kittycat88 » Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:41 pm

To me Fiction is fiction. It's only limit it the mind of the creator. If fiction limites itself to the known or reasonable, it is limiting its potential. The great thing about fiction is its lack of limits.

Fiction can be logical...because it is striving most time to tell a made up story and present it as something that could happen...

Actually I am not sure what Corso is sayinghere...have to go back and see if I am up to that part yet. I would like to read the quote in context.
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Re: TCD Question #1 - Fiction

Unread postby Parlez » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:33 pm

Hmmm...I'm not sure I understand what Corso is saying here either. I'll have to read the passage and try to get the logic of it.

Right off the bat, though, when I first read the passage in question I thought of the wonderful Garcia-Marquez classic, One Hundred Years of Solitude, an example of a story that definitely suspends, twists, and often obliterates the usual rules of logic. Then I thought of Alice in Wonderland, since it's a story currently under discussion here on the Zone. It's another case of fiction not being bound by the construct of having to make sense. There are many more examples I'm sure. Perhaps it could be said that it's basically the manipulation of logic that makes a good story a great one...?

In real life I think things do happen by chance, but then we immediately get busy trying to put a logical spin on it; to make it make sense. That's how we're able to understand and make sense of ourselves, IMO. A writer already knows the future (ending) of his or her story, so s/he can present seemingly random occurances in a way that will ultimately make sense to the reader. The reader, I think, puts a certain trust in the author to know where the story is going and to eventually reveal the logic of it. But only the author knows precisely how the progression of events will unfold from the beginning. So fiction writing tends to be predetermined in some ways by the ending. In real life we're not so lucky; we have to muddle along as best we can without knowing the end. What we can understand at any given moment is minimal; naturally we're going to want to make sense of it as best we can.

Am I making sense?? :perplexed:
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Re: TCD Question #1 - Fiction

Unread postby Angelina » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:34 pm

Liz
From pg. 298. “In the real world, many things happen by chance, but in fiction nearly everything is logical.”

Do you agree?

Lately – no. :grin: To be more exact, I agree with this phrase, but only if we speak about a good fiction. In a good fiction the author sees a whole plot, whole dynamics, he thinks over connections and a development, the start and the end – all things in the book submit to his logic. In the real world the author and his plans are unknown to us, and sometimes is really difficult to find any logic in some events. (Although, if we will hold the opinion, we are authors of our life ourselves, to find some logic in the reality is getting much simpler :eyebrow:).

But lately the fiction disappoints me. I have an impression, too many authors suffer now from ordinary graphorrhea, they start to write, having no ideas about what will happen with their heroes, why heroes will act in that way, what they want to say in general. As a result such books resemble a complete mess, they haven’t any logic.

But I think, Corso obviously means a good fiction. So, I agree with him – in a good fiction with a good plot nearly everything is logical, yes. And to understand the author’s logic, author’s signals really is an additional pleasure sometimes.
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Re: TCD Question #1 - Fiction

Unread postby gemini » Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:12 pm

I must admit when I first read this question my first impulse was to answer, Yes.

Then thinking of my reading of paranormal romances and why I like them. It dawned on me that it was because they didn't have to be logical and the plot could surprise me. Now I do think that the plot follows a logical plan the author had in mind but how do we mean logical?

Then I started debating the definition of logical. Here is a bit from wikipedia

The field of logic ranges from core topics such as the study of validity, fallacies and paradoxes, to specialized analysis of reasoning using probability and to arguments involving causality. Logic is also commonly used today in argumentation theory.


I think Corso was thinking along the lines of Sherlock Homes type fiction and reasoning out the plot of a mystery which would follow some sort of logic.
Here is a Homes quote that sort of says what I think Corso was going for.

Often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth - (Sherlock Homes) Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.


I think I will answer NO, because not everything is a Sherlock Holmes type of story.
Example.. logic is that the sun comes up in the morning and goes down at night. People live and die etc. Well in fiction these logical points do not have to be followed.
Last edited by gemini on Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: TCD Question #1 - Fiction

Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:49 pm

I think I would have to say no, but then it does depend on they type of story as some of you have pointed out. Ultimately it is up the author to take us on his ride where he wants us to go. Depending on your taste or mood you might be ready for a straighforward narrative or a mind bending science fiction story. That's the beauty of reading! Parlez, I think most of us humans do have a need to explain things in a logical manner and try to make sense of seemingly random acts in life. I'm getting better as I get older about just going along for the ride. :motorcycle:
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Re: TCD Question #1 - Fiction

Unread postby nebraska » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:51 pm

Without reading everyone else's answers, my initial response is "yes." A work of fiction, composed by a human being, needs structure or it will meander about aimlessly and end up falling apart. Even if the story takes a turn the author didn't expect, it is still worked into the framework of the story in some sort of logical fashion.

Real life, on the other hand, doesn't have to fit any sort of logical structure or constraints of length or time. Life just happens. I know that some people believe everything happens for a reason and that there is such a thing as destiny and all of that. My own belief is that the Creator set the world in motion with some basic laws of nature (like gravity, for instance). Now He sits back and watches that creation function, sometimes sad, sometimes amused, but often surprised. I think life is random -- otherwise I could not live with my reality.

I like the new board! It should make for a pretty discussion.

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Re: TCD Question #1 - Fiction

Unread postby Endora » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:31 pm

I'm with you, Nebraska. Real life has too many loose ends to make a good novel. That's why a good novel needs a scrupulous edit to make it a satifying read. Real life meanders so.
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