ATD Question #20 - Unsuccessful

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ATD Question #20 - Unsuccessful

Unread postby Liz » Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:29 am

Why is Arturo so unsuccessful in the romance department?
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Betty Sue
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Unread postby Betty Sue » Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:11 pm

I think it was because he was so unsure of himself. He didn't know who he was, what he should be like, if he'd ever be anybody. If a girl liked him, he'd feel unworthy and not know how to reciprocate. He seemed to have a fear of actually having a close relationship...always sabotaged it. With Vera he began to believe he had some kindness and consideration in him and began to evolve. Also, he was so wrapped up in his own multiple problems that he had difficulty putting someone else's concerns before his own. After he started getting his life together, he did better.
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Unread postby Parlez » Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:09 pm

Well, part of the problem, IMO, is that he's a romantic! He's got this fantasy going on in his head that can't possibly be matched in real life. Hence the conflict, the frustration, the anger. All of his encounters with females are imbued with his simplistic, one-dimensional, imaginary, unrealistic, highly charged, emotional baggage. He sees women not as people really, but as, I don't know, something else. (symbols, maybe, like Mary in the Catholic tradition...?) In any case, he's not at all intereted in their reality ~ at no time does he ever bother to ask himself where they're coming from, what they want, or who they are. He claims he wants to be intimate with these creatures, but at the same time he holds them as strangers, alien to himself. Ergo, he's bound to fail in that department.
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Unread postby gemini » Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:14 pm

I thiink Stevo had more of an impression on him than he wants to admit. As a youngster , he was always torn between feeling his mother was treated badly and at one point being proud that his father was sleeping with such a high class mistress. He has "showing off his masculinity" and "being a man" mixed up. He still has those hang-ups today. He can not let his feelings for Camilla be important to him because he is Arturo Bandini!

Somehow I wished that he put more emphasis on being kind to others than on whether he was sinful or not. His ups and downs with sin and remorse spread into his love life. He only sees situations from how they affect him and can't see that he needs to show affection towards others instead of command them to his wishes.
Just a thought I had, thinking back to our Bandini discussion. We always ended our dismay with him by saying we had to remember that he was just an adolescent but he is now grown up with the same problems.
Last edited by gemini on Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Liz » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:32 pm

gemini wrote: Just a thought I had, thinking back to our Bandini discussion. We always ended our dismay with him by saying we had to remember that he was just an adolescent but he is now grown up with the same problems.


Good point!

And all very good answers....and so different from each other. I like that. :cool: Unfortunately, I'm posting and running now because I only have this brief moment between major errands today. So I won't comment further just yet.....
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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:42 pm

I think you have each picked up on a part of him that is at work in his relationships (or lack thereof) with women. He certainly didn't have much in the way of a positive role model for relationships in his parents and I also think a lot of his insecurites and fears come from the way he grew up in his family and in the church. Parlez, he just might be a romantic because what he knew of good relationships he had to imagine for himself and reality was far different!
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Unread postby suec » Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:57 pm

I agree, DIDHOT, about his background. I also think that Rosa has a lot to do with it. The one time he did show affection, he got slammed down and then there was the death. That has got to have has a profound impact on him. And the rejection of the gift, and subsequent humiliation, must have confirmed his impression of the relationship between his parents. Well, it mirrored it, didn't it? It's enough to make him wary of women. And also fearful of showing affection, although I don't mean to excuse his treatment of Camilla. There are other options, after all.
I do also think although I have been banging on about this a lot, :blush: that the romantic relationships fit in with the other relationships in the book - or lack of them. He has no friends; is a total loner. Hellfrick; the priest. There's a pattern here. Even the landlady. Sorry if I am straying into another question. It's just that it seems that the romance department is part of the other thing.
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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:11 pm

We will be talking about Rosa and Camilla soon.

Your point about his lack of friendships in any arena is a good one. There is a pattern. He can't seem to interact on a personal level successfully to sustain any kind of lasting or meaningful relationships. I think Sammy is as close as we see him come to any kind of friendship - if you can call it that.
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Unread postby Liz » Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:38 pm

DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:We will be talking about Rosa and Camilla soon.

Your point about his lack of friendships in any arena is a good one. There is a pattern. He can't seem to interact on a personal level successfully to sustain any kind of lasting or meaningful relationships. I think Sammy is as close as we see him come to any kind of friendship - if you can call it that.


If you can call it that. I wonder if he was able to develop any other close relationships with others after this period. He obviously did with his wife. Well at least on paper.

I personally think that Arturo’s lack of success is due to a combination of his religious upbringing (and all the guilt associated with sex) combined with his lack of self-confidence in general.
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Unread postby nebraska » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:54 pm

I think in general he is unable to relate to anyone. Good romance starts as a good friendship......or at least, if it starts as love at first sight attraction, the ability to form a friendship still seems to be necessary to have a good lasting relationship.....Arturo cannot move beyond his own self centeredness......for him, everything is about Arturo first and everything else is window dressing for Arturo......


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