TBIMG Question #11 ~ Suppression

by Dr. Madhi Obeidi and Kurt Pitzer

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TBIMG Question #11 ~ Suppression

Unread postby Liz » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:10 am

Pg. 143. As Dr. Obeidi asks: “How could a nation ever hope to achieve greatness by suppressing its top-caliber people?”
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Unread postby Betty Sue » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:58 am

Exactly! It can't! But the leaders seem to be oblivious of this situation as they operate with a false sense of security amid a crowd of sycophants. What a waste! :-/
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Unread postby Raven » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:02 pm

Saddam's ego was his own downfall. In the book TBIMG, it seemed he only cared for himself and what other nations thought of him (powerful). And only cared about what others could do for him.

And what Betty Sue said, totally agree! :cool:
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Unread postby Liz » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:31 pm

What Betty Sue, Raven and Dr. Obeidi said. :lol:
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:03 pm

It all seems to come back to ego, doesn't it? If the scientists were allowed to do their work at a reasonable pace, not just to feed an ego, they would be so much more productive. Not that in this case that would have been a good thing. I'm thinking of some parallels here with WWII and the race for the bomb.
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Unread postby Liz » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:36 pm

DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote: It all seems to come back to ego, doesn't it? If the scientists were allowed to do their work at a reasonable pace, not just to feed an ego, they would be so much more productive. Not that in this case that would have been a good thing. I'm thinking of some parallels here with WWII and the race for the bomb.


That's a good parallel because I don't view that as a good thing either. However, we weren't suppressing our top scientists (at least I don't remember it going that way).
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:31 am

Liz wrote:
DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote: It all seems to come back to ego, doesn't it? If the scientists were allowed to do their work at a reasonable pace, not just to feed an ego, they would be so much more productive. Not that in this case that would have been a good thing. I'm thinking of some parallels here with WWII and the race for the bomb.


That's a good parallel because I don't view that as a good thing either. However, we weren't suppressing our top scientists (at least I don't remember it going that way).


I was referring more to the Axis side.
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Unread postby Liz » Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:49 am

DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:
Liz wrote:
DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote: It all seems to come back to ego, doesn't it? If the scientists were allowed to do their work at a reasonable pace, not just to feed an ego, they would be so much more productive. Not that in this case that would have been a good thing. I'm thinking of some parallels here with WWII and the race for the bomb.


That's a good parallel because I don't view that as a good thing either. However, we weren't suppressing our top scientists (at least I don't remember it going that way).


I was referring more to the Axis side.


Got it.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Unread postby gemini » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:33 pm

As Dr. Obeidi asks: “How could a nation ever hope to achieve greatness by suppressing its top-caliber people?”

This is a double edged sword to a dictator. On one hand they control and even intimidate their people as a resourse but on the other they can free them to thrive on their own but what they invent might not be able to be controlled by the dictator. Not only that but the ego factor would keep them from letting the best and brightest outshine their leadership. They want the fruits of their intelligence without the threat of competition.

DITHOT and Liz, about your WWII comparisons. I think this story certainly reminds me of our race with Germany to develop the bomb. As Liz says I don't think our scientists were suppressed but certainly rushed. It wasn't until after the war that we knew Germanys scientists weren't as far a long as ours.

If you are interested in the Sceintist points of view here is a good article I found.

Article by the Journal of the Fedeeration of American Scientists written in 1994 called CONSCIENCE, ARROGATION AND THE ATOMIC SCIENTIST.


http://www.fas.org/faspir/pir0894.html
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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:07 pm

gemini, I was thinking of the German scientists in the area of the bomb but also in the area of the horrific things that went on in the concentration camps in the name of science.

Your article is very timely and will make some good background for an upcoming question.
;-)
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Re: TBIMG Question #11 ~ Suppression

Unread postby fansmom » Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:24 pm

Liz wrote:Pg. 143. As Dr. Obeidi asks: “How could a nation ever hope to achieve greatness by suppressing its top-caliber people?”
Couldn't happen here, could it?

Reuters, July 10, 2007--
The first U.S. surgeon general appointed by President George W. Bush accused the administration on Tuesday of political interference and muzzling him on key issues like embryonic stem cell research.

"Anything that doesn't fit into the political appointees' ideological, theological or political agenda is ignored, marginalized or simply buried," Dr. Richard Carmona, who served as the nation's top doctor from 2002 until 2006, told a House of Representatives committee.

The link to the article--
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/ ... geNumber=1

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Re: TBIMG Question #11 ~ Suppression

Unread postby gemini » Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:06 pm

fansmom wrote:
Liz wrote:Pg. 143. As Dr. Obeidi asks: “How could a nation ever hope to achieve greatness by suppressing its top-caliber people?”
Couldn't happen here, could it?

Reuters, July 10, 2007--
The first U.S. surgeon general appointed by President George W. Bush accused the administration on Tuesday of political interference and muzzling him on key issues like embryonic stem cell research.

"Anything that doesn't fit into the political appointees' ideological, theological or political agenda is ignored, marginalized or simply buried," Dr. Richard Carmona, who served as the nation's top doctor from 2002 until 2006, told a House of Representatives committee.

The link to the article--
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/ ... geNumber=1

I saw this in the news and thought the same as you. Not that it couldn't happen here but we have sunk to where it is happening here. I also thought of the global warming issues and climate changes. The rest of the world seems to be a lot more excepting of this issue then here.
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Re: TBIMG Question #11 ~ Suppression

Unread postby Liz » Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:20 pm

gemini wrote:
fansmom wrote:
Liz wrote:Pg. 143. As Dr. Obeidi asks: “How could a nation ever hope to achieve greatness by suppressing its top-caliber people?”
Couldn't happen here, could it?

Reuters, July 10, 2007--
The first U.S. surgeon general appointed by President George W. Bush accused the administration on Tuesday of political interference and muzzling him on key issues like embryonic stem cell research.

"Anything that doesn't fit into the political appointees' ideological, theological or political agenda is ignored, marginalized or simply buried," Dr. Richard Carmona, who served as the nation's top doctor from 2002 until 2006, told a House of Representatives committee.

The link to the article--
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/ ... geNumber=1

I saw this in the news and thought the same as you. Not that it couldn't happen here but we have sunk to where it is happening here. I also thought of the global warming issues and climate changes. The rest of the world seems to be a lot more excepting of this issue then here.


I was referring to WWII, not the current state of affairs. I didn't think I wanted to go there. But you both bring up good points.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.


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