TBIMG Question #13 ~ The Crazy Horse

by Dr. Madhi Obeidi and Kurt Pitzer

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Liz
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TBIMG Question #13 ~ The Crazy Horse

Unread postby Liz » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:56 am

Pg. 44. Twice Dr. Obeidi was entertained at a strip club/caberet. The whole encounter seemed designed for my benefit, to create an atmosphere of intimacy.

How do you think that would create “an atmosphere of intimacy”? Was this the real reason?
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Unread postby Betty Sue » Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:55 am

I guess the 'good old boys' in France thought some booze and almost-naked ladies might loosen the good doctor's lips and lead to an understanding of what was going on in Iraq. I'd think Dr. Obeidi actually would be less comfortable in a situation like this as he was used to women being modestly covered up. The ploy didn't work.
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Unread postby ThirdArm » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:29 pm

I think this is a good example of the cultural differences that are making this whole venture in Iraq extraordinarily complicated.

They figured that Dr O would be just fine with going to a strip club because he was a man. What they didn't factor in was his culture. A Muslim man would be put off and embarrassed by such a display. However one feels about the position of women in Islam, there is a modesty and 'protection,' for a lack of a better word. The strip club thing was not cool.
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Unread postby nebraska » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:39 pm

I agree that these guys probably thought any man would enjoy the entertainment, forgetting that Dr. Obeidi came from a very different culture.....or perhaps because he came from a more restricted environment, they thought he would enjoy the naughtiness of the whole thing. So yes, the "good ole boy" network. It seems to me, however, with crowds and noise and such, to be less than "intimate" to discuss important matters. Business and science and such would seem better discussed in a butterfly garden or some other serene place, not in a noisy, smoky strip club. :-/ But then, I am a woman and I find the male mind just about as foreign as the Iraqi culture.

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Unread postby Liz » Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:02 pm

Agreed, Betty Sue and ThirdArm. I think this is common place in the business world. I know it happens in Japan. But I think they slightly misjudged Dr. Obeidi’s feelings towards such entertainment. I think “intimacy” is an odd word to use. Loosen up or bribe might be better. As Nebraska said, the surroundings aren’t exactly conducive to technical conversation. Foreign indeed, Nebraska.
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Unread postby gemini » Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:24 pm

As misguided as modern men are about sex being a universal pleasure this isn't surprising. It seems they may have thought they were treating him to something not available in his couture that he would like. They may have thought since he lived in the US in his college days he may have taken a liking to American men's outings.
Somehow with my female reasoning I don't think this atmosphere would be conducive to any type of business dealings unless they were opening a porn establishment. Our senate and congress seem to enjoy this type of meeting so much it is no wonder they can't accomplish anything in their sessions.
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Unread postby Liz » Sat Jul 21, 2007 3:34 pm

gemini wrote:As misguided as modern men are about sex being a universal pleasure this isn't surprising. It seems they may have thought they were treating him to something not available in his couture that he would like. They may have thought since he lived in the US in his college days he may have taken a liking to American men's outings.
Somehow with my female reasoning I don't think this atmosphere would be conducive to any type of business dealings unless they were opening a porn establishment. Our senate and congress seem to enjoy this type of meeting so much it is no wonder they can't accomplish anything in their sessions.


:lol:
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Unread postby suec » Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:13 am

It is a crude tactic to use, in more than one sense of the word, but they also reckoned without his experience in having to guard his tongue.
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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:26 pm

Too funny, gemini! :lol: I agree with you all about this being another example of cultural differences. You would think the French would have done some hoemwork in that regard.

nebraska, I agree about foreign territory and the male mind!
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Unread postby Theresa » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:16 am

Liz wrote: I think “intimacy” is an odd word to use. Loosen up or bribe might be better. As Nebraska said, the surroundings aren’t exactly conducive to technical conversation. Foreign indeed, Nebraska.

I had that same feeling, Liz -- why did he use the word intimacy to describe what was probably a very noisy place? When I think of an intimate place, what comes to mind is a quiet, secluded hideaway, not a strip club.

Then I thought that maybe his wording of "atmosphere of intimacy" wasn't what I was picturing. Maybe he was meaning intimate in the sense of a familiar, shared event. Possibly his hosts thought that the visit to the strip club might bring him into what Betty Sue mentioned, the "good old boys" club. If he felt like he was one of them, then he might be willing to share his secrets.

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Unread postby Liz » Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:08 pm

theresa wrote:
Liz wrote: I think “intimacy” is an odd word to use. Loosen up or bribe might be better. As Nebraska said, the surroundings aren’t exactly conducive to technical conversation. Foreign indeed, Nebraska.

I had that same feeling, Liz -- why did he use the word intimacy to describe what was probably a very noisy place? When I think of an intimate place, what comes to mind is a quiet, secluded hideaway, not a strip club.

Then I thought that maybe his wording of "atmosphere of intimacy" wasn't what I was picturing. Maybe he was meaning intimate in the sense of a familiar, shared event. Possibly his hosts thought that the visit to the strip club might bring him into what Betty Sue mentioned, the "good old boys" club. If he felt like he was one of them, then he might be willing to share his secrets.


Agreed, Theresa. Intimacy does mean familiarity and having the trust or comfort to share thoughts, feelings or confidences.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.


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