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 Post subject: TPAOL Question #15 ~ Parallels
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:28 am 
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Even though the story is set in Russia in 1919, do you see parallels to other points in the past or present?



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:39 pm 
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Am I being too simplistic when I see Samarin paralleled in so many terrorist acts in our century? It seems to be a terrorist principle that it can be justified to destroy the innocent without conscience in the pursuit of a greater goal. Both out countries, DITHOT, have seen that, as have so many others.



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:10 pm 
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Sad but true, Endora. That is not too simplistic of a parallel at all. I had the same thought. I'm also reminded of the cults of personality and blind loyalty we saw in religous leaders like Jim Jones and David Koresh.



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:11 pm 
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Right off the bat, I see a parallel with the revolution in China.... The same kind of upheaval and chaos, the same harsh climate and remoteness, the same attempt to galvanize the masses to get behind a new paradigm, and, no doubt, the same atrocities.

During the student uprisings in the US during the 60's the word 'anarchist' was handed out to many of the members of the SDS, the Weathermen and the Black Panthers (not to mention Bob Dylan), but I don't think those guys came close to being true anarchists - they seem quite tame compared to Samarin. There may have been a few who fit the description, but they were rather easily absorbed back into the ranks of the status-quo (think Jerry Rubin, who ended up being an accountant or a real estate agent or something after his 15 minutes of fame as a TV revolutionary).

Today things may be more fired up, with more young men of certain disinfranchised groups feeling they have nothing to lose by blowing themselves and everybody else off the face of the earth. They won't be so easily dissuaded either since there's no denying the appeal of religious zeal for rationalising just about anything. As terrorism goes, it seems like the agendas have switched from political ideals to religious ones, which, IMO, makes them much more deadly ~ an appallingly ironic situation when you think about it. While Samarin and the comrades of the Russian Revolution were trying to create a future that was better than the past, the terrorists today seem hell-bent on getting rid of the future altogether.
Sorry...I know it's a little early in the day to be up on the :soapbox:!!



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:39 pm 
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Parlez wrote:
As terrorism goes, it seems like the agendas have switched from political ideals to religious ones, which, IMO, makes them much more deadly ~ an appallingly ironic situation when you think about it. While Samarin and the comrades of the Russian Revolution were trying to create a future that was better than the past, the terrorists today seem hell-bent on getting rid of the future altogether.
Sorry...I know it's a little early in the day to be up on the :soapbox:!!


Is there room for me on top of that box? Balashov's version of religious fanaticism seems more preferable to me. :grin:



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:26 pm 
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Parallels to past or present?

North Korea --- Political. Hell bent on getting energy by what ever means. Give us energy or we'll make our own bomb. :eyebrow:

China -- Political - hell bent on ostracizing Taiwan.

Indonesia - Political - Hell bent on keeping Americans off their soil.

I don't know of any modern day parallels to people: Samarin, or Balashov or others. :-? Perhaps Johnny's heroes are parallels. I'm thinking of the one in S.America. Che.
Or, how about Coloumbia's Castro?

~~~~ Line of Digression ~~~~

Parallels in general story line? :dunce: No idea at all.

Do you know any modern day vigilantes ? I need to knock on some of my neighbours doors and check. :banghead: There may be some lurking around here somewhere.


Last edited by Depputante on Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:07 pm 
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Quote:
Parallels to past or present?


Either or both, Depputante. :cool:



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:16 pm 
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A parallel that jumped into my mind was a comparision to the survival of the people involved in our American Civil War vs those in Russia in and around 1919. Cannibalism in the Civil War, maybe not, but I sure rememeber reading how wounded soldiers would crawl through the night seeking water, find some in a puddle, only to awake to see it was blood or ?
The Civil War mercilessly raged in and around all the towns and cities occupied with citizens, with campaigns all year long. The people of these towns were shoved out of their houses so the army could use it. They had to stick together, share whatever they had, and probabl;y long after the war was over.

Here, Sherman's March to the Sea in 1864 is a good example of how war effected the common people the most!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman%27 ... to_the_Sea

And another time in history this seemed so apparent was in Scotland, when the English, just before winter burned all the land of food and killed or stole their cattle/horses. ( Wasn't a Tesco's then!! ) ( Please, no offence to our English lasses on the Zone .)

Does it seem war is always the hardest on the innocent?
And what would we here in the US do if more evil came onto our precious soil? Would we stick together ?

Lady Jill



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:25 pm 
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OK, I'll take a poke at a different angle this time.
Perhaps this is an easier angle to the question, though I'm an internal sort, and don't care much for outside news, so don't have concrete examples.

I find these Parallels:
1) The love of one's country.
2) The love of freedom. There are still modern day 'hippies' who roam their lands in RV's. As Samarin roams around Russia.
3) The love of war/power. I'm thinking of Army Generals, in general.
4) The love of religion. Many churches are all vying for patrons.
5) The love of a child.


Last edited by Depputante on Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:25 pm 
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It seems that we are good at spotting parallels in other countries and in our own country's past. But what about parallels in our own countries in the present? Looking back at yesterday's question, does propaganda by our respective states (or the media that helps to finance our political parties) mean that we don't see similar things happening in the present?



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:17 pm 
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Lady Jill wrote:
And what would we here in the US do if more evil came onto our precious soil? Would we stick together ?


That’s a thought I really don’t want to think about. :fear: I would hope we would stick together.

Depputante wrote:
OK, I'll take a poke at a different angle this time.
Perhaps this is an easier angle to the question, though I'm an internal sort, and don't care much for outside news, so don't have concrete examples.


That's OK, Depputante. Those parallels work. I used to be up on the news, but have backed off quite a bit; so I don’t feel well versed in current news and politics enough to be able to comment. I have my opinions, but they are not entirely based on fact (at least nothing I can prove), but on my perception of the truth. This is a very hard question for me to answer, but everyone else has great answers! :thumbsup:

Endora wrote:
It seems that we are good at spotting parallels in other countries and in our own country's past. But what about parallels in our own countries in the present? Looking back at yesterday's question, does propaganda by our respective states (or the media that helps to finance our political parties) mean that we don't see similar things happening in the present?


This is a good point, Endora! But again, my knowledge is quite limited in this area—at least enough to be able to talk intelligently about it.



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:09 pm 
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Endora, I think more people are savvy these days than say 50 years ago when it comes to political propaganda in our respective countries. Having said that...we are still subjected to not just political propaganda but cultural (I'm thinking of advertising and cultural norms) as well. The culture of spending and disposable items, having the biggest, best and newest of everything, etc. Okay, sorry, off topic but I think we are being bombarded by propaganda on a daily basis of many types.



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:12 pm 
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Late to the party again, so I am going to answer and then go back and read.
Even though the story is set in Russia in 1919, do you see parallels to other points in the past or present?

This could cover a lot territory because the parallels could be compared to so many different aspects of the book.

For the past, parallels from the Czec army bring to mind the American civil war with 618,000 casualities more than any other US war. Rough conditions, harsh weather, relatives fighting relatives. Quantrill's Raiders, confederates thought of as guerilla's by the North and heros by the South for burning Lawrence Kansas and killing 150 people. Two of their members Frank and Jesse James became famous later as bank robbers who had lost their farm to carpet baggers after coming home from the war. Harsh circumstances made them live their lives differently than they intended.

Samarin's parallels to the recent past makes me think of Timothy Mcbay who was executed for the the Oklahoma City bombing.

For present day Katya's, I think all the young men and woman walking into buildings in Iraq with bombs strapped to themselves feel they are doing it for a greater cause and of course the 911 bombers.

I am just thinking of a few from the US here, but world wide there would be too many to print.


Last edited by gemini on Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:59 pm 
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gemini, the party never ends so you can't be late! The suicide bombers are a good example of doing something for the "greater good" as one perceives it to be. There have been so many atrocities that have been committed for political or religious reasons for centuries. It boggles the mind. :-/



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:15 pm 
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Liz:
Not to worry, all the Zoners would get together and help out, with Johnny as our leader! :captainjack:

Lady Jill



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