Happy Days Question #10 - Mireille & Antoine

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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:31 am

gemini, I think his moment of feeling for Mirelle came in the during the trip, not at her death. I think he was able to push those feelings away, possible through anger? I think he was disappointed in the experience in that it didn't give him the enlightenment he had hoped for but I'm not sure it was pointless. Maybe just a point on the graph of experience.
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Unread postby gemini » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:47 am

DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:gemini, I think his moment of feeling for Mirelle came in the during the trip, not at her death. I think he was able to push those feelings away, possible through anger? I think he was disappointed in the experience in that it didn't give him the enlightenment he had hoped for but I'm not sure it was pointless. Maybe just a point on the graph of experience.

I really wanted to see something positive that Antionne got from actual feelings for Mirielle. The closest I got was when he threatened to leave her behind on the bench after getting tools from the trunk to open her winkles. He actually feels tenderness , true love, watching her trying to eat on the bench in the snow. He says he never would have really abandoned her, because he held her life in his hands, and it is worth more than anything. That was his last thought before taking her back to the hotel the night she died..
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Re: Happy Days Question #10 - Mireille & Antoine

Unread postby Lady Jill » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:57 am

[quote="Liz"][b]Pg. 54. “This is the first time I’ve laid eyes on her.,,,,I sit down next to her and share her contemplation. We stay like that, side by side, without speaking, united in a mutual presence that is subtle and pleasant. If I were younger, or if I were not wary of a religious interpretation, I would speak fearlessly of love to describe the inexpressible feeling that draws me to her at this moment, but I will speak instead of an intimate complicity, of the—accidental—collusion of minds that meet and reveal themselves to one another. This impalpable embrace lasts only as long as the breathing space our bodies will give us, so in the biting cold, it’s not long before my neighbor shows signs of fatigue. Then I turn toward her, discovering her face.” [color=darkred]

What attracted Antoine to Mireille?
I believe it had something about the bench - his sacred place if you will. But it was also the soul mate part that you all have talked about too, a connection he couldn't explain.. . and one he chose to not look further at, due to his experiment.

What did you think of the relationship between them?
I think they were both an important part of their relationship with each other. Mireille never saw her family yet they seemed like they were at one time very important to her . . .Antoine filled a void for her, not right at first but it grew into a fragil love. Antoine was looking at the death and dying part of her, but I feel it went way deeper than that right at that moment by the sea - with her on the bench, he kneeing in front of her. . .he saw her with true love.
" for the first time ( did he never have this with his wife? ), I hold someones life in my hands, almost literally, and that life, frail though it might be, is worth more than anything.".
What did Antoine hope to learn from her?
I think he was looking for the the meaning of human suffering and its effects on death.

What did he actually learn?
The presciousness of life and the delicacy of love.

To add my thoughts further. . . I know the feeling of having family turn away from you, leaving you alone. I could feel for Mireilli, thinking what it would be like to be in your final days of life, alone. . .and to a silent joy in walks a character like Johnny Depp to comfort, care and literally carry you to your end of your days. What a beautiful way to go.

Lady Jill

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Re: Happy Days Question #10 - Mireille & Antoine

Unread postby Liz » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:39 am

Lady Jill wrote: I could feel for Mireilli, thinking what it would be like to be in your final days of life, alone. . .and to a silent joy in walks a character like Johnny Depp to comfort, care and literally carry you to your end of your days. What a beautiful way to go.


When you put it that way..... :cloud9:
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Unread postby Parlez » Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:11 am

I've been wanting to tell this story since our discussion of Happy Days began, so I'll do it now while we're on the topic of A&M, and in response to LadyJill's beautiful thoughts ~

A couple of years ago, I was fortunate to have a Mirielle come into my life. Her name was Betty and she arrived at the nursing home where I was working at the time with a bang. She looked like a combination of Georgia O'Keefe, Isak Dinesen, and Merle Oberon (her favorite movie star). She wore leopard skin tights,
black ballet slippers, red lipstick, and tons of jewelry. In our rather provincal, conservative town, and amongst a group of elderly residents who were mostly locals, she looked like she'd come from another planet. And she had ~ planet Beverly Hills!
The fact that I actually knew where Beverly Hills was, and I had an avid interest in Old Hollywood, made us fast friends; we hit it off right away.
Betty was 85, but she looked much younger. Afterall, she had gone out to Hollywood in the '30's to become a movie star. Her looks were very important to her. And she was anything but passive or resigned to her fate ~ she would often say outloud, to noone in particular, "How in the world did I get here?!" She was, in a word, unique. She could be incredibly cruel, irreverent, dismissive, funny, demanding and impossibly charming ~ all in the space of about an hour!
I was about the same age as her daughter, but I wouldn't say we had a mother-daughter relationship.
I was more like Betty's confidante, personal assistant, therapist, and maid. She wasn't like my mother either, but I was aware that my relationship with her might give me the chance to make up for the fact that I missed my mother's passing, who died suddenly from a stroke at 71. Like Antoine, I wanted to 'watch' Betty die. And, like him, the idea of doing so was as frightening as it was compelling. I had the same kind of approach-avoidance thing going that he did...I wasn't sure how involved I was prepared to be in the nitty-gritty of this person's departure.
For Betty, I think she saw in me a chance to tell her story to someone who was essentially a stranger...I could hear her story without caring about her story, if that makes sense. Who was I, afterall, to judge the rightness or wrongness of her life? To me, it was just a story - a fiction - I didn't even care if it was true.
I think she valued that...the non-judging, simple listening helped her come to terms with her life.

In the end, we both made it to the end of Betty's story. I'm fairly sure I got much more out of the process than she did, but maybe not.

But one thing is certain: Betty would LOVE it that I'm sharing the story of our friendship on a movie star fansite!! Deppinately!!
Thanks!
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Unread postby Depputante » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:38 pm

Well, I didn't check in last night, and look what happened? Whoa!

Gemini, you have very good points here. I feel I missed much of the question.
The conclusion I come to after reading your thoughts, is that in the end, on the bench with Mirielle at the sea, Antoine realized that he loved life.

Parlez, perhaps that is the greatest gift a dying person can give, is the ability to show another person how to accept life for what it is?
And, an accord of the pontlessness of Antone's life? No, :capnjack: I don't think Antoine's life is pointless. By witnessing, he is learning to love life afterall. However subtle, he's made a huge transition in his life.

I just wish the book was a little less subtle. It makes me think too much! :headache: But this is why I'm here reading the ONBC book list, reading, thinking. I do love the Deppth.
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Unread postby Liz » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:43 pm

Wow, Parlez! Thanks for sharing that story. I think it helps me understand Antoine a little better. Actually, many of your posts have made him more human to me. Thanks for that. And I think Betty would love that you shared about her here. :cool:
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Unread postby Depputante » Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:07 pm

My newest discovery is that Antoine feels he's always been the scapegoat. (bottom of p.65-66). Is he Mirelle's scapegoat too?
“The scariest enemy is from within. Allowing yourself to be limited and conform to what you're expected to conform to.”~JD

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Unread postby gemini » Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:00 pm

Depputante wrote:My newest discovery is that Antoine feels he's always been the scapegoat. (bottom of p.65-66). Is he Mirelle's scapegoat too?


And here I go off to reread another page. Depputante I simple love the depth we get into here on each thought. I do think that always feeling like the scapegoat could have an affect on Antionne.

This is totally off topic but I thought I would throw it in at the end of one of these threads before we finish Happy Days. I recently read Shantaram and joined another book discussion because I wasn't here when ONBC did it. I can't help but notice the difference between the two groups. (How I would have loved to be in your Shantaram discussion) I keep noticing how different this discussion on a tiny book like Happy Days is from the one we are having on Shantaram. Since you all are aware how compelling a book Shantaram is, I am surprised at how little interest is coming forth in the discussion. I realize it is all in how it is organized and it has to be done by someone truly interested enough to read and pose some thoughts on the book. Not to mention hunt down tidbits. I don't know if you started out with this format or worked up to it but I am grateful to be involved in it now. I also realize that the group here is not your average reader and I am privileged to be here.
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Unread postby Depputante » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:10 pm

gemini wrote:
Depputante wrote:My newest discovery is that Antoine feels he's always been the scapegoat. (bottom of p.65-66). Is he Mirelle's scapegoat too?


And here I go off to reread another page. Depputante I simple love the depth we get into here on each thought. I do think that always feeling like the scapegoat could have an affect on Antionne.

This is totally off topic but I thought I would throw it in at the end of one of these threads before we finish Happy Days. I recently read Shantaram and joined another book discussion because I wasn't here when ONBC did it. I can't help but notice the difference between the two groups. (How I would have loved to be in your Shantaram discussion) I keep noticing how different this discussion on a tiny book like Happy Days is from the one we are having on Shantaram. Since you all are aware how compelling a book Shantaram is, I am surprised at how little interest is coming forth in the discussion. I realize it is all in how it is organized and it has to be done by someone truly interested enough to read and pose some thoughts on the book. Not to mention hunt down tidbits. I don't know if you started out with this format or worked up to it but I am grateful to be involved in it now. I also realize that the group here is not your average reader and I am privileged to be here.


I've never ever been in a book club before either. And this morning I was thinking that I love the internet for this idea. We can talk in deppth and not have the time constraints of an hour to meet, etc. Could you imagine?!? Only an hour per sitting ?!? We wouldn't learn much!
“The scariest enemy is from within. Allowing yourself to be limited and conform to what you're expected to conform to.”~JD

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Unread postby Liz » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:19 pm

gemini wrote:
Depputante wrote:My newest discovery is that Antoine feels he's always been the scapegoat. (bottom of p.65-66). Is he Mirelle's scapegoat too?


And here I go off to reread another page. Depputante I simple love the depth we get into here on each thought. I do think that always feeling like the scapegoat could have an affect on Antionne.

This is totally off topic but I thought I would throw it in at the end of one of these threads before we finish Happy Days. I recently read Shantaram and joined another book discussion because I wasn't here when ONBC did it. I can't help but notice the difference between the two groups. (How I would have loved to be in your Shantaram discussion) I keep noticing how different this discussion on a tiny book like Happy Days is from the one we are having on Shantaram. Since you all are aware how compelling a book Shantaram is, I am surprised at how little interest is coming forth in the discussion. I realize it is all in how it is organized and it has to be done by someone truly interested enough to read and pose some thoughts on the book. Not to mention hunt down tidbits. I don't know if you started out with this format or worked up to it but I am grateful to be involved in it now. I also realize that the group here is not your average reader and I am privileged to be here.


It's a good group alright, Gemini. We would be nothing without all of you--and that would deppinately include our new members, who seem to be very keen on getting into a novel in deppth. :cool:

Just a bit of ONBC history for you. I started the tidbit idea when we first began ONBC, but tidbits really only amounted to author info or info related to Johnny. It was DITHOT (who was not a moderator at the time) who got me to see past the author as a tidbit when she shared some historical info from Perfume. And tidbits have not been the same since. Thanks, DITHOT. :highfive:

I just want to add that you can view our Shantaram discussion (which was one of our best) in the ONBC Archives.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Unread postby Liz » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:24 pm

Depputante wrote:
gemini wrote:
Depputante wrote:My newest discovery is that Antoine feels he's always been the scapegoat. (bottom of p.65-66). Is he Mirelle's scapegoat too?


And here I go off to reread another page. Depputante I simple love the depth we get into here on each thought. I do think that always feeling like the scapegoat could have an affect on Antionne.

This is totally off topic but I thought I would throw it in at the end of one of these threads before we finish Happy Days. I recently read Shantaram and joined another book discussion because I wasn't here when ONBC did it. I can't help but notice the difference between the two groups. (How I would have loved to be in your Shantaram discussion) I keep noticing how different this discussion on a tiny book like Happy Days is from the one we are having on Shantaram. Since you all are aware how compelling a book Shantaram is, I am surprised at how little interest is coming forth in the discussion. I realize it is all in how it is organized and it has to be done by someone truly interested enough to read and pose some thoughts on the book. Not to mention hunt down tidbits. I don't know if you started out with this format or worked up to it but I am grateful to be involved in it now. I also realize that the group here is not your average reader and I am privileged to be here.


I've never ever been in a book club before either. And this morning I was thinking that I love the internet for this idea. We can talk in deppth and not have the time constraints of an hour to meet, etc. Could you imagine?!? Only an hour per sitting ?!? We wouldn't learn much!


I am also in a book club like that. Although we have a couple of hours, we have never gotten into the deppth that we do here. But it was that book club that fed my interest in books and gave me the initial idea for tidbits, as it is the hostess's responsibility to present author info to the group. And the food is really good at these things. :lol:
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Unread postby nebraska » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:31 pm

[quote="gemini I realize it is all in how it is organized and it has to be done by someone truly interested enough to read and pose some thoughts on the book. Not to mention hunt down tidbits. I don't know if you started out with this format or worked up to it but I am grateful to be involved in it now. I also realize that the group here is not your average reader and I am privileged to be here.[/quote]

My thoughts, too -- I have been fortunate to be here from the beginning and I am still constantly amazed at the intelligence and sensitivity of the moderators and the members of this book club! Johnny attracts the best! :angel: I think because we all love him and admire him for who he is, we share a common heart even though we are many nationalities and ages and have many other differences. We are a very special group!

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Unread postby Parlez » Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:30 pm

Agreed! I think reading and discussing a book without the inspiration of Johnny would be a very different experience indeed. I don't usually like book groups because they don't go deep (Depp) enough for me ~ but here I can go on and on and nobody (yet) has stopped me!
I am very grateful for all the thoughtful insights and wonderful ideas that have gone into this book discussion. As you can tell, Happy Days is very close to my heart, as is Johnny, and all of you! A million thanks to the moderators for the amazing tidbits to get us started and for keeping us (me) on track.
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Unread postby gemini » Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:13 am

Parlez wrote:Agreed! I think reading and discussing a book without the inspiration of Johnny would be a very different experience indeed. I don't usually like book groups because they don't go deep (Depp) enough for me ~ but here I can go on and on and nobody (yet) has stopped me!


Yes I agree Parlez, Johnny is inspirational. I have always read a lot but he has me reading books I would not have picked out left to my own devices. It does however take a well organized format and interested group to make a good discussion.
Liz said
I just want to add that you can view our Shantaram discussion (which was one of our best) in the ONBC Archives.
Liz your suggestion about the archives is a good one. It is something to point out to the newbies because it took me awhile here before I really got into it. I am so glad you keep it all because as all these new fans learn of Johnny they will be reading those books. I have spent a lot of time in there deciding what I wanted to read based on everyone's comments. I have read Shantarams tidbits and they are priceless! I still have not finished the whole discussion but it is really interesting to read after having read the book.
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers



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