Good Omens Question #20 - The Ineffable Plan

by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett

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Good Omens Question #20 - The Ineffable Plan

Unread postby Liz » Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:24 am

A definition/commentary on the Ineffable Plan that I found on the web:

Ineffable is basically anything that is unspeakable; unutterable; indescribable. The Ineffable plan is basically God's will. Based on the proverb "God moves in mysterious ways," this descriptive of God's intentions is useful for agnostics who proclaim they don't really know whether there is a God, and if there is, what on earth is he up to. We as humble human beings will never know truly what the Ineffable Plan is whilst we shuffle our mortal coils. But if a heaven awaits us, then mayhap we will find out what all our sufferings were for. Until then, we can only ponder about the reasons why the world is like it is, and for everything unexplained by logic and reason, jot it up to the Ineffable Plan.

Comment on this description and what you think the significance of the Ineffable Plan is to the story.
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Unread postby Betty Sue » Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:43 pm

Ohhhhhh, so that's what 'ineffable' is all about---always thought I should have looked it up while I was reading as I was a bit fuzzy on it.... It seems like the signficance of the Ineffable Plan to this story is that the story never needed to be written (what a sad loss :bawl: ). It really didn't matter who raised what baby, how the witchfinders fared, what the devils or angels did, or how effective the horsepersons were; the Ineffable Plan prevails to this day! And I like that description of it. :cool:
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Unread postby Liz » Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:28 pm

I took the exact opposite viewpoint, Betty Sue—that Gaiman and Pratchett were making fun of the Ineffable Plan. I thought that the Ineffable Plan was what A & C knew about, along with their demonic, angelic and metatronic conspirators, but that the rest of the world didn’t. The rest of the world was not expecting the world to come to an end at that time because none of us humans are supposed to know that. And Adam, of all people, was the one to foil the plan. But maybe their point was that not even those “in the know” know the Ineffable Plan.

I like the description, too, Betty Sue.
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Unread postby Veronica » Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:05 pm

I wish I had my book to see this part. I didnt finish the book so now I am very curious. I am definately going bsck to this book.

I beleive in the fact that things happen for a reason & that some things are just plain out of our control. One of my favorite movies is the City of Angels. It points out that some things are just left in the hands of God or fate what ever your beliefs are.
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Re: Good Omens Question #20 - The Ineffable Plan

Unread postby Gypsylee » Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:52 pm

Liz wrote:A definition/commentary on the Ineffable Plan that I found on the web:

Ineffable is basically anything that is unspeakable; unutterable; indescribable. The Ineffable plan is basically God's will.

Comment on this description and what you think the significance of the Ineffable Plan is to the story.




Okay, here goes. Ineffable plan...... God is the creator, God has the game plan, God knows the outcome of everything. We don't. So, when we don't understand the whys of it all... its the ineffable plan. We see as if in a clouded mirror now, but in His presence we will see clearly. All pieces fit together like a puzzle. We don't understand why things are happening because we can't see the big picture and we don't understand what God is trying to bring about.

Another thought that messes with my mind is the idea that God has always been......... How? Infellable.

Significance to the story....... well, actually, it wasn't significant to the story because supposedly things got changed from the original infellable plan by miscellaneous mistakes...........unless, of course, that was the ineffable plan to begin with.
"In the time of your life, live....so that in that wondrous time you shall not add to the misery and sorrow of the world, but shall smile to the infinite delight and mystery of it." Saroyan

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Unread postby Betty Sue » Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:26 pm

Liz wrote:I took the exact opposite viewpoint, Betty Sue—that Gaiman and Pratchett were making fun of the Ineffable Plan. I thought that the Ineffable Plan was what A & C knew about, along with their demonic, angelic and metatronic conspirators, but that the rest of the world didn’t. The rest of the world was not expecting the world to come to an end at that time because none of us humans are supposed to know that. And Adam, of all people, was the one to foil the plan. But maybe their point was that not even those “in the know” know the Ineffable Plan.


Oh, I completely bought into the story that A & C were concerned about the world coming to an end and the conspirators on each side championing that. 'Ineffable' kept coming up, but A & C admitted they didn't know the answers. Crowley says, "You start thinking: it can't be a great cosmic game of chess, it has to be just very complicated Solitaire. And don't bother to answer. If we could understand we wouldn't be us."
And, Gypsylee, I love your allusion to the biblical, "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then I shall know even as also I am known." :angel:
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Re: Good Omens Question #20 - The Ineffable Plan

Unread postby Liz » Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:27 pm

Gypsylee wrote:
Significance to the story....... well, actually, it wasn't significant to the story because supposedly things got changed from the original infellable plan by miscellaneous mistakes...........unless, of course, that was the ineffable plan to begin with.


I think that may be the point. :eyebrow:
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Unread postby Liz » Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:30 pm

Betty Sue wrote: 'Ineffable' kept coming up, but A & C admitted they didn't know the answers. Crowley says, "You start thinking: it can't be a great cosmic game of chess, it has to be just very complicated Solitaire. And don't bother to answer. If we could understand we wouldn't be us."


I love that quote. :cool: I think it says it all.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Re: Good Omens Question #20 - The Ineffable Plan

Unread postby Charlene » Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:34 pm

Liz wrote:
Gypsylee wrote:
Significance to the story....... well, actually, it wasn't significant to the story because supposedly things got changed from the original infellable plan by miscellaneous mistakes...........unless, of course, that was the ineffable plan to begin with.


I think that may be the point. :eyebrow:


Yes...but I had to snicker when I read this because I swear I could hear Captain Jack saying it (like in that scene in POTC1 about buying a drink).

Well, you ladies have answered these question so well, that I don't even need to put in my 2 cents...What "they" said :)

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Re: Good Omens Question #20 - The Ineffable Plan

Unread postby Gypsylee » Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:50 pm

Liz wrote:
Gypsylee wrote:
Significance to the story....... well, actually, it wasn't significant to the story because supposedly things got changed from the original infellable plan by miscellaneous mistakes...........unless, of course, that was the ineffable plan to begin with.


I think that may be the point. :eyebrow:


Awwwwwww. I seeeeeeeeeeee. When my brain goes around a few too many corners it gets lost. :perplexed:
"In the time of your life, live....so that in that wondrous time you shall not add to the misery and sorrow of the world, but shall smile to the infinite delight and mystery of it." Saroyan

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Unread postby nebraska » Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:08 pm

I actually did look up the word as I was reading! In fact, I read the book with a dictionary at my side and made definition notations in the margins as I went. That made a lot of things more clear for me.

I read the book "When Bad Things Happen to Good People" a few years ago and I more or less decided that the author meant much of life is random, that God set the universe in motion and now the natural laws He put in place in the beginning are responsible for the things that happen. I am not sure that is the same thing as an ineffable plan, but I really don't think our little human minds are meant to understand it all.

This whole question could give me brain cramps.

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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:59 am

nebraska, that seems to be what Crowley is thinking. He says this bit at the beginning of the paragraph that Betty Sue quoted.

"...why do that if you really don't want them to eat it, eh? (meaning the forbidden fruit) I mean, maybe you just want to see how it all turns out. Maybe it'sa ll part of a great big ineffable plan. All of it. You, me him, everything. Some great big test to see if what you've built all works properly, eh? You start thinking: it can't be a great cosmic game of chess..."

nebraska wrote: This whole question could give me brain cramps.


Could?
:lol:
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