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 Post subject: Inamorata Question #16 ~ Ernst Stanlowe
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:24 am 
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What part did Mina’s ex-husband, Ernst Stanlowe, play in the story?

What is your opinion of the anagram of his name? (pg. 234) “waltEr stenSon”

What did you think of the fire at the hotel? Who was behind it?

Lots of questions today!
:zoner:



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:50 am 
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Perhaps he was supposed to be a red herring, maybe he didn't have anything to do with it, perhaps the anagram was just a coincidence maybe that is why it was not followed up,. I think Stanlow brings too many ifs and maybe's in to the story but maybe that is the point.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:33 pm 
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I agree, GG, that he was designed to make you wonder whether he really existed or he was just an imaginary person. It made you question the reality of his presence in the story.



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:38 pm 
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Where to begin? This is probably the question I most eagerly anticipate reading others' answers about and also dread trying to answer myself, so here goes.

I think Stanlowe is definitely real and exactly who he says he is. We have Patterson's proof, in that he has met both Walter and Ernst Stanlowe. And he met Ernst on the occasion of his and Mina's first social appearance together as husband and wife. But what part does Stanlowe play in the story? Why do we need him? I think he helps us dislike and distrust Crawley more than we might without the details he provides. And he also tells Finch to keep looking for Mina's accomplice and he will find him, which I still haven't figured out. And then Finch and Walter have the detailed discussion about Stanlowe during the last seance, ending with Finch accusing Walter of not being Mina's brother and saying that was Stanlowe's opinion! (Which I take to mean that Finch and Stanlowe are accusing someone of working with Mina to create the Walter illusions?) :hypnotic:

The anagram has me stumped. I guess I have to agree that maybe it is just a coincidence.

We know the Liberty Hotel was a flop house and we know that while Finch was there Stanlowe's cigarette had fallen from his mouth and was smoldering on his chest so that Finch had to put it out for him. But I don't think we are meant to believe that the fire was Stanlowe's fault through accident. Could he have had enough strength and mental power left to have set it on purpose to cover his move to another location? Or are we meant to believe that Walter might have set it?

HELP! I need :sherlockholmes: I'm just asking more questions than I'm answering, so I'll get back to work.



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:16 pm 
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Bix wrote:
HELP! I need :sherlockholmes: I'm just asking more questions than I'm answering, so I'll get back to work.

Gotta say, Bix, I'll be astonished if anyone comes up with definitive answers to these questions. I have no answers at all.

My only comment is that the anagram would be a cheap trick if it were just coincidence.


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 Post subject: Re: Inamorata Question #16 ~ Ernst Stanlowe
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:40 pm 
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DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:
What part did Mina’s ex-husband, Ernst Stanlowe, play in the story?

What did you think of the fire at the hotel? Who was behind it?

Lots of questions today!


I think that Crawley was supplying Stanlowe with drugs in exchange for his cooperation in their scheme. Once he was addicted, he could not free himself.

I think Crawley set the fire at the hotel to get rid of Stanlowe because he could expose them as frauds. Crawley got scared when Finch located Stanlowe.



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:49 pm 
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Good points, everyone. I don't think the anagram is a coincidence but I don't have a good answer for it either. :lol: I tended to think that Stanlowe was in cahoots with Arthur, the fact that he was seen outside their house and his drug addiction were clues for me. And it is Walter that points Finch in Stanlowe's direction with the pigeon and we know Walter didn't like Arthur. I don't think Stanlowe set the fire accidentally because he wouldn't have survived if he was passed out so that could point to Arhtur. But if that is true, then Walter must have had some basis in reality because Crawley wouldn't expose himself by sending the pigeon.

And here are some more random thoughts. Or...was Stanlowe just despondent over losing Mina and he became a drug addict on his own and Mina knew about him but couldn't help him because she was afraid of Arthur. Or...were Mina and Stanlowe in on it together and just using Arthur? I think I have a headache...
:perplexed: :hypnotic:



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:07 pm 
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DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:
Good points, everyone. I don't think the anagram is a coincidence but I don't have a good answer for it either. :lol: I tended to think that Stanlowe was in cahoots with Arthur, the fact that he was seen outside their house and his drug addiction were clues for me. And it is Walter that points Finch in Stanlowe's direction with the pigeon and we know Walter didn't like Arthur. I don't think Stanlowe set the fire accidentally because he wouldn't have survived if he was passed out so that could point to Arhtur. But if that is true, then Walter must have had some basis in reality because Crawley wouldn't expose himself by sending the pigeon.

And here are some more random thoughts. Or...was Stanlowe just despondent over losing Mina and he became a drug addict on his own and Mina knew about him but couldn't help him because she was afraid of Arthur. Or...were Mina and Stanlowe in on it together and just using Arthur? I think I have a headache...
:perplexed: :hypnotic:

I don't think Stanlowe was ever in cahoots with Arthur Crawley. There was just too much pain and grief in his telling of the story of losing Mina and the baby to Crawley. Even in his debilitated state, he was able to call up his anger for a few moments. So I don't think he would have helped Crawley in any way, even to get the drugs he needed. I think he had become a drug addict on his own after losing Mina and that she was helping him out with the clothes and food behind Crawley's back. Stanlowe tells Finch that Mina doesn't know of his "condition", meaning, I assume, his drug addiction.

The pigeon is a huge mystery, too. Walter does tell Finch that he deliberatly sent him looking for Stanlowe so as to put a stop to the Inquisition of his sister. But for that to matter to us, we have to believe that Walter is real. Now I've made my head ache, too, DITHOT!:headache:



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:36 pm 
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I've been thinking along the same lines as you, Bix, that Stanlowe is real, was important in giving background to the Mina/baby/Creepy Crawley story, was responsible for his own drugging and may have set the fire as a way to 'disappear.' I don't think Walter set the fire because I believe Walter was a splintering of Mina. And maybe that is why Stanlowe said he wasn't her brother. The accomplice would be the spirit of Walter that her desperate condition conjured up.
Cannot come up with a theory on the anagram... Hope you can follow my other convoluted thinking! :-?



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:57 pm 
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I like what you said, Betty Sue. I think we are on the same wavelength here. And, if anything, yours was a lot less convoluted than my ramblings!



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:23 pm 
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Don't know about that, Bix! And I appreciated how well you laid everythig out and saved me from the attempt!
:thanks:



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:06 pm 
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Wow ladies. :cool: .I hadn't thought of any of that..I couldn't make up my mind about him..I kept thinking it's someone dressed up in a shoddy disguise..[ The vision of Johnny in OUATIM keeps popping into my head,with his obvious disguises]..He's sort of unfinished..as if the author was going to flesh him out more but didn't for some reason..It certainly adds alot to our impressions of Mina too..The fact that they are possibly together at the end adds to the mystery...



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:09 pm 
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Creepy Crawley! :lol: Good one, Betty Sue! I had not thought of Stanlowe starting the fire on purpose to disappear...hmmmmm. :interesting:
Larkwood, I like the theory that Crawley was somehow behind the fire.

Quote:
bix wrote: Walter does tell Finch that he deliberatly sent him looking for Stanlowe so as to put a stop to the Inquisition of his sister.


Which leads us to believe that somehow Walter thinks Stanlowe is connected to Crawley who Walter can't stand? :headache:


Here's a theory off the top of my head...just what we need one more theory, right? :eyebrow: What if Stanlowe was hanging around to protect Mina and he felt he had to disappear because Creepy Crawley was on to him? Maybe he knew she had some mental problems from when they had been married. Okay, just another wild theory!
:-)



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:17 pm 
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DITHOT, if Walter is a splintered identity of Mina's. I think it would make sense for him to lead Finch to Stanlowe so as to give Finch a better understanding of the situation, which would lead to less of an inquisition by Finch. And it did lead him to some different theories on Mina. (I'm keeping Creepy Crawley out of it!)
As to your theory of Stanlowe protecting Mina, it did look like that's how things ended up. He didn't seem to have much ability to do that when we first met him, however, and I don't think my brain is up to trying to figure out that whole theory now. But you can go for it! :grin:



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:48 pm 
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Betty Sue wrote:
DITHOT, if Walter is a splintered identity of Mina's. I think it would make sense for him to lead Finch to Stanlowe so as to give Finch a better understanding of the situation, which would lead to less of an inquisition by Finch. And it did lead him to some different theories on Mina. (I'm keeping Creepy Crawley out of it!)
As to your theory of Stanlowe protecting Mina, it did look like that's how things ended up. He didn't seem to have much ability to do that when we first met him, however, and I don't think my brain is up to trying to figure out that whole theory now. But you can go for it! :grin:


Betty Sue, I'm not sure my brain is up for it either! :-? :lol: But I will say that you all should start formulating your theories for the end of our discussion! :sherlockholmes:

Good point about why Walter would lead Finch to Mina.
:cool:



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