Inamorata Question #5 ~ The Affair

by Joseph Gangemi

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DeppInTheHeartOfTexas
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Inamorata Question #5 ~ The Affair

Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:12 am

What is your opinion of the affair between Mina and Martin. Were there ulterior motives on either part?
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Unread postby Bix » Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:42 pm

I'm not sure I would call it an "affair", since I think that word usually implies that both parties are equally involved in making a relationship happen. And I don't think Finch ever had a snowball's chance in hell of resisting Mina. I do think Crawley (perhaps with Mina's full knowledge and cooperation?) set Finch up. Why? I'm not sure. But given the early scenes like the one where Crawley has Finch come with him as he carries Mina to bed after a seance - and then leaves him there knowing Mina will kiss him, telling Finch how amorous Mina is after a session, putting Finch "in charge" of Mina for the day, etc. - I saw all that as Crawley using Finch for something - possibly just his own pleasure at having power over the younger man. Or possibly just taking perverse pleasure in watching what Finch would do. And Mina. In the best light, she was just happy to have a younger man to flirt with and pass the time with. But to take him to the little cafe where couples having affairs met, to take him shopping and have him try on clothes, to have him help decorate the Christmas tree - to give him kisses and tease him. That was all leading up to her seduction of him in the hotel room. Yes, he confesses that he loves her. But I think he just couldn't resist her. Did she use him just to get a baby? We don't really know, do we, what exactly happened with her first baby and whether she wanted another, although there was a scene where she told Finch her Siamese and little dog were her children. So, I guess I'm saying that I think at least one of the Crawleys had ulterior motives and that I don't think Finch did.
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Re: Inamorata Question #5 ~ The Affair

Unread postby Larkwoodgirl » Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:09 pm

DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:What is your opinion of the affair between Mina and Martin. Were there ulterior motives on either part?


I think that both Mina and Crawley had ulterior motives.

I do not see how Finch cold think that a woman who he believed to be hypnotized could suddenly become overly passionate and want to have sex with him. It wasn't even a post-hypnotic suggestion. He demonstrated his knowledge of hypnosis earlier in the book. He could not have been that stupid. I guess men do truly think with.. well never mind. :dunce:

I noticed that in a few places Dr. Crawley makes reference to his wife's menstrual cycle to explain her behavior (page 90 is one example). He seems just a bit too tuned into that. I think they were both overly tuned into it.

I think her two personas (Mina and Walter) were motivated by two goals: to have a child and to be rid of Crawley. (I think the gay reference at the end of the book is a reference to Crawley.)

Toward the first goal, she manipulated Finch in any way she could to get him into bed with her without making him overly suspicious. Although, it appears that if she had stripped him and drug him into bed at any point in the story that he would not have been overly suspicious.

The affair did not have even a hint of credibility to it.
Last edited by Larkwoodgirl on Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:16 pm

Ahhh yes, Arthur... he will be our topic for tomorrow! ;-)

I think Mina definitely set Martin up to be seduced and Martin certainly fell right in to her trap. I believe he cared more for her than she did for him. Maybe she was lonely but as the story progressed I thought Mina wanted to use the affair to undermine his subjectivity. There may have been a part of her that wished they could truly be together but I think would have been secondary. So my opinion is that she definitely had a motive but I think he was just taken with her.
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Unread postby Betty Sue » Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:42 pm

This story can have so many interpretations that it's maddening! I'm open to being convinced otherwise, but still choose to think that Mina pursued Martin out of neediness (I'm admittedly confused about why her husband seemed to support this :eyebrow:) and that Martin found it hard to resist Mina and grew to love her, perhaps out of sympathy. I wouldn't classify it as much of an affair. And this Pollyanna isn't ascribing any ulterior motives (until proven otherwise! :sherlockholmes: ).
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Unread postby SamIam » Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:49 pm

DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:Ahhh yes, Arthur... he will be our topic for tomorrow! ;-)

I think Mina definitely set Martin up to be seduced and Martin certainly fell right in to her trap. I believe he cared more for her than she did for him. Maybe she was lonely but as the story progressed I thought Mina wanted to use the affair to undermine his subjectivity. There may have been a part of her that wished they could truly be together but I think would have been secondary. So my opinion is that she definitely had a motive but I think he was just taken with her.


I don't see why Mina would want to jeopardize the integrity of the investigation. I think Crawley would have more of a reason than Mina. He didn't like how Finch and Mina interacted so he wanted to ruin the investigation so that Finch would leave. I think he coerced Mina into seducing Finch. But I also agree that Mina used Finch to get a baby. In th end though, You never find out whose baby it is. Although it is implied that it is Finch's baby. I think that Crawley had more of a motive than Mina. He seemed to be intimidated by Finch being a younger man and all so he wanted to sabatoge the investigation by convincing Mina to seduce him therefore destroying the integrity of the investigation. Although the integrity was already compromised because Finch was staying in their house.
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Unread postby Liz » Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:52 pm

I think Mina had two ulterior motives. One of the reasons for her flirtatiousness with Martin was to undermine his subjectivity, as DITHOT said. But also, I think she was lonely or bored with Crawley and wanted the attentions of a younger man. I hadn’t really thought of the goal to have a child, Larkwood, until you mentioned it. So I suppose that could be a third.

Although he did his best to try to remain subjective, Martin couldn’t help himself. I don’t think he really had any ulterior motives other than his desire for her. Although exciting to read, I was a little bothered by his seemingly taking advantage of her in her hypnotic state. She was obviously totally aware of what she was doing, but I don’t think it was obvious to him until afterward.
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Unread postby Gilbert's Girl » Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:55 pm

I got the impression Martin knew that she was not hypnotized.
I think he had a feeling if he could get close to her that way he would find out more, maybe I'm reading too much into that.I agree Mina had an alterior motive, to become pregnant maybe but also to get him on her side.

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Unread postby Liz » Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:59 pm

Betty Sue wrote:This story can have so many interpretations that it's maddening! I'm open to being convinced otherwise, but still choose to think that Mina pursued Martin out of neediness (I'm admittedly confused about why her husband seemed to support this :eyebrow:) and that Martin found it hard to resist Mina and grew to love her, perhaps out of sympathy. I wouldn't classify it as much of an affair. And this Pollyanna isn't ascribing any ulterior motives (until proven otherwise! :sherlockholmes: ).


I agree, Betty Sue. The story can have many interpretations. And I don't know that we will ever know for sure--even if we ask Gangemi. And in this case of this book, I can be swayed so easily.
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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:21 pm

Betty Sue, I agree there are so many interpretations and like Liz I can go back and forth because you all present such convincing arguments! I also try to focus on just the character in the book and not the real Mina but my perceptions are easily colored sometimes.

SamIam we'll be getting into Arthur and his motives tomorrow I definitely think he played a part in it all!
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Unread postby suec » Sun Feb 05, 2006 4:22 pm

I thought at first that she pursued Martin to throw him off-balance and undermine his detective skills. She told him that Crawley had seen him as the one to watch out of all the others. Perhaps this was to flatter him, and get him on side another way. But I also think that she wanted the attention, so in this sense I agree with Betty Sue. But mainly I think it was the desire for a baby. This is clearly a sensitive issue, as Crawley reacts so badly when Martin calls the room a nursery and warns him not to use that word in front of Mina. One thing I noticed was the number of times Martin is compared to Crawley, for instance in their eating habits, and they have similar builds, we are told. And getting him to try on Crawley's clothes was symbolic. So I do think from an early point that he is being sized up as a substitute for Crawley.
Liz, I also was bothered by him taking advantage after seemingly hypnotising her, even though she was such a ready participant. He shows this side to his character on other occasions too, such as when she asks him to kiss her, after the first seance.
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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Sun Feb 05, 2006 4:29 pm

I have a question regarding the baby issue. Without getting too far into Arthur's character, do we know he couldn't father a child? I seem to have forgotten... :eyebrow:
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Unread postby Gilbert's Girl » Sun Feb 05, 2006 6:06 pm

DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:I have a question regarding the baby issue. Without getting too far into Arthur's character, do we know he couldn't father a child? I seem to have forgotten... :eyebrow:


I assume the miscarried child was his :-? or was it stillborn :-? Amazing how quickly you can forget the details :banghead:

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Unread postby Betty Sue » Sun Feb 05, 2006 6:19 pm

I know he said she 'may' never have a baby again, and he certainly acted like it was unlikely with the way he didn't want the word 'nursery' mentioned... Yeah, I assumed the first one was his... ????
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Unread postby nebraska » Sun Feb 05, 2006 6:33 pm

Betty Sue wrote:I know he said she 'may' never have a baby again, and he certainly acted like it was unlikely with the way he didn't want the word 'nursery' mentioned... Yeah, I assumed the first one was his... ????


I need to go back and look at my book......why am I thinking it was her first husband's child and the whole incident happened BEFORE she married Crawley????

I really do need to read this book again, I have no idea where to find the time for that.


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