ALWD Question #21 ~ A rose by any other name...

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DeppInTheHeartOfTexas
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ALWD Question #21 ~ A rose by any other name...

Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:35 am

What did you think of Dog/Nodog’s theory that a name stops you from being who you wanted to be? “So this bloke with the dog didn’t have a name. I mean, he must have had one at some stage, but he told me he didn’t use it anymore, because he didn’t agree with names. He reckoned they stopped you from being whoever you wanted to be…” (pg 313)
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Unread postby Gilbert's Girl » Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:58 am

thats the idea of if you have a certain name it labels you.There are certain names that define a person in this country as to class and area, so I think it is an interesting point. But you can break the mould as with all things so just because you are called something dosen't mean you have to be like people assume you to be.

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Unread postby Liz » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:04 am

Gilbert's Girl wrote:thats the idea of if you have a certain name it labels you.There are certain names that define a person in this country as to class and area, so I think it is an interesting point. But you can break the mould as with all things so just because you are called something dosen't mean you have to be like people assume you to be.


True. And that would show the rebel in you. But I think Nodog wanted no confines or contstraints on him at all.
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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:07 am

I think some people find it hard to exist without their labels and tend to let others define who they are. When I was in college I participated in an interesting assignment for a sociology class. We had to pick 5 people from three different age groups and have them fill out a piece of paper that only had ten lines on it. Each line started with I am...then they had to fill in the blanks. Think about that in your own life...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -

Wow! What a ride!

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Unread postby Liz » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:11 am

DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:I think some people find it hard to exist without their labels and tend to let others define who they are. When I was in college I participated in an interesting assignment for a sociology class. We had to pick 5 people from three different age groups and have them fill out a piece of paper that only had ten lines on it. Each line started with I am...then they had to fill in the blanks. Think about that in your own life...


Is there another list question in the works? :bounce:
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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:13 am

Hmmmm....something to consider, Lizbaba!
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -

Wow! What a ride!

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Unread postby Betty Sue » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:44 am

I would hope people wouldn't let their names define them...one more way for a parent to ruin a child! Johnny Cash's 'A Boy Named Sue' comes to mind. Guess it worked in that case...
Before the day is over, DITHOT, I will definitely find out more about myself by doing your assignment. (But if we have to share it, I will definitely have to upgrade it a bit. :grin: )
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Unread postby Raven » Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:37 pm

I haven't a clue if your name defines you unless your name is Hope, Faith etc, that may be rough to live up to?

I am not sure a name like Tom would be a defining name....

I do know two women in their 50's that changed their names, though. One legally and one just using her middle name now instead of her first name.
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Unread postby Liz » Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:42 pm

I guess people do believe that names define a person or how a person is perceived. I know someone who didn’t want to name his daughter a certain name because he thought it was too weak a name. He wanted his daughter to grow up to be strong and confident. He ended up giving his daughter the “weak” name. But she’s turned out to be one tough cookie. Go figure.
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Unread postby Raven » Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:49 pm

Liz wrote:I guess people do believe that names define a person or how a person is perceived. I know someone who didn’t want to name his daughter a certain name because he thought it was too weak a name. He wanted his daughter to grow up to be strong and confident. He ended up giving his daughter the “weak” name. But she’s turned out to be one tough cookie. Go figure.


It always figures in naming dogs, the guy that names his dog Jet will find it very slow, the guy with the dog named pokie will find it fast as a greyhound. happens all the time. LOL
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John Wilmot, the 2nd Earl of Rochester in The Libertine by Stephen Jeffreys

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Re: ALWD Question #21 ~ A rose by any other name...

Unread postby fansmom » Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:00 pm

DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:What did you think of Dog/Nodog’s theory that a name stops you from being who you wanted to be? “So this bloke with the dog didn’t have a name. I mean, he must have had one at some stage, but he told me he didn’t use it anymore, because he didn’t agree with names. He reckoned they stopped you from being whoever you wanted to be…” (pg 313)
Even though Jess finds that to be an interesting concept, she acknowledges that it's rather awkward in a practical sense. Plus there are so many other, more fundamental, factors that limit who we want to be: age, race, etc.

We once adopted a guinea pig from the shelter. His shelter name was "Lightning," and my brother, upon hearing his name, asked whether he was blindingly bright or blindingly fast. My daughter and I looked at each other and said, "We have to change this little boy's name." He became Pookie.

My name dates me (no, my real name, not fansmom!). It was trendy in the 1950's, when I was born but hasn't been since, so everyone who hears it knows approximately how old I am.

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Unread postby QueenofKings » Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:09 pm

This is interesting in that in many cases people are defined by their names. There have been studies done where teachers discriminated for or against children, depending on whether their name was popular or one considered not a good name to have. (Sorry, but I cannot site a particular study, but I have read about this in such diverse places ase Psych journals and introductions in Baby Name books.)
My name was popular in the 1950s-1970s in the US, and that sort of divulges how old I am. And I may not be the norm, but I have used names other than my own during certain times and places in my life. Have any of you done that? I am just curious.

I like that list idea, DITHOT. Sounds like it would be a cool thing to try.

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Re: ALWD Question #21 ~ A rose by any other name...

Unread postby QueenofKings » Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:11 pm

fansmom wrote: My name dates me (no, my real name, not fansmom!). It was trendy in the 1950's, when I was born but hasn't been since, so everyone who hears it knows approximately how old I am.


Funny, I was writing my response while you posted this and we have the same idea about how our names date us.

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Re: ALWD Question #21 ~ A rose by any other name...

Unread postby Liz » Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:21 pm

fansmom wrote:
DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:What did you think of Dog/Nodog’s theory that a name stops you from being who you wanted to be? “So this bloke with the dog didn’t have a name. I mean, he must have had one at some stage, but he told me he didn’t use it anymore, because he didn’t agree with names. He reckoned they stopped you from being whoever you wanted to be…” (pg 313)
Even though Jess finds that to be an interesting concept, she acknowledges that it's rather awkward in a practical sense. Plus there are so many other, more fundamental, factors that limit who we want to be: age, race, etc.


Fansmom, I think you are on to something here. I think he is using "names" symbolically. I think he is talking about any label that restricts one's ability to grow or be whatever we want to be.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Unread postby suec » Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:53 pm

I also think he is using the name issue symbolically. For me, it is about how you see yourself and especially the desire to escape from yourself. Jess says something about this on page 68:

"I did that thing where you decide to become a different person... If you borrow someone else's clothes or their interests or their words, what they say, then it can give you a bit of a rest from yourself, I find.
It was time to feel different."

And on page 208 - 209
"I had that terrible feeling you get when you realize that you're stuck with who you are, and there's nothing you can do about it... My dad wonders why I choose to be like this, but the truth is you have no choice, and that's what makes you feel like killing yourself."

This Nodog character can try being different people, in the same way that Jess talks about being other people. But it is very hard to escape from who you really are. "Telling me I can do anyhting I want is like pulling the plug out of the bath and then telling the water it can go anywhere it wants" (209)
"Luck... inspiration... both only really happen to you when you empty your heart of ambition, purpose, and plan; when you give yourself, completely, to the golden, fate-filled moment."


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