F&LILV Question #22 - The Wave

by Hunter S. Thompson

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Sands
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Unread postby Sands » Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:31 pm

Yeah. those words still ring true don't they? And what about 'Masters of War' and 'With God on our Side'? Could've been written yesterday.
'Well, it's a little difficult for me to tell right now because I'm kind of having a bad day'

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DeppInTheHeartOfTexas
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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:32 pm

Similar to the wave speech but more optimistic and a call to action rather than a lamentation of what was. Nice song... I taped Part 2 of the Dylan piece last night but have not been able to watch it yet.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -
Wow! What a ride!

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Unread postby JD101 » Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:03 pm

DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:Similar to the wave speech but more optimistic and a call to action rather than a lamentation of what was. Nice song... I taped Part 2 of the Dylan piece last night but have not been able to watch it yet.


Where are they showing this Dylan doc? I seem to have missed it and would like to see it.

I think that song was a rallying call.
"The greatest pain that comes from love is loving someone you can never have." ~ Unknown

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Unread postby Liz » Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:19 pm

101, it's on PBS, but not necessarily the same days and times around the US. I think it's being repeated, too. For me, I think Part 1 was repeated at 3:00 a.m. this morning, but I didn't bother to tape it. I saw Part 2 last night. Check out PBS.org (I think). There was an interesting scene in a car that made me think of Johnny. I won't say much more for those of you who have yet to see it. I felt it was sad, too, Sands. :-/

Endora, thanks for posting the words to the Dylan song. Very fitting. :cool:
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Unread postby JD101 » Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:17 pm

While looking up info for the Leary passage thread I came across something that Hunter wrote that expresses my thought about the demise of the 60’s youth movement. It started eating itself from within.

The [Hells] Angels blew it in 1965, at the Oakland-Berkley line, when they acted on [Sonny] Barger’s [a leader of the Hells Angels] hardhat, con-boss instincts and attacked the front ranks of an anti-war march. This proved to be an historic schism in the then Rising Tide of the Youth Movement of the Sixties. It was the first open break between the Greasers and the Longhairs, and the importance of that break can be read in the history of SDS, which eventually destroyed itself in the doomed effort to reconcile the interests of the lower/working class biker/dropout types and the upper/middle, Berkeley/student activists.

Nobody involved in that scene, at the time, could possibly have foreseen the Implications of the Ginsberg/Kesey failure to persuade the Hell’s Angels to join forces with the radical Left from Berkeley. The final split came at Altamont, four years later, but by that time it had long been clear to everybody except a handful of rock industry dopers and the national press. The orgy of violence at Altamont merely dramatized the problem. The realities were already fixed; the illness was understood to be terminal, and the energies of The Movement were long since aggressively dissipated by the rush to self-preservation.


There was definitely a class distinction within the various movements that was not addressed. There was a clash of idealisms.
That “rush to self-preservation”, I believe resulted in the people in the 70’s and 80’s turning inward and becoming materialistic, self-medicating, yuppies.

Very much like a pendulum DITHOT.

Oh and thanks for the info on the Dylan doc, Liz. I'll look to see when it will re-run.

*
"The greatest pain that comes from love is loving someone you can never have." ~ Unknown

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Unread postby Liz » Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:44 pm

And another relevant quote from Hell's Angels:

The Hell’s Angels are not visionaries, but diehards, and if they are the forerunners or the vanguard of anything it is not the “moral revolution” in vogue on college campuses, but a fast-growing legion of your unemployables whose untapped energy will inevitably find the same kind of destructive outlet that “outlaws” like the Hell’s Angels have been finding for years. The difference between the student radicals and the Hell’s Angels is that the students are rebelling against the past, while the Angels are fighting the future. Their only common ground is their disdain for the present, or the status quo.

I think Hunter was a combination of both of these--rebelling against the past and fighting for the future.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Unread postby bluebird » Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:52 pm

This is a bit off topic, but ~~
Several years ago my teenage daughter and I were having a "discussion" about something she wanted to do and I didn't want her to do...
Anyway, next morning I get up and there on the kitchen island was a note to me with these words on it.

"Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'." (Thanks for posting this, Endora.)

I approached her a bit put out and basically said.... "Don't be quoting Dylan to ME!!"
But then, when I thought about it, I was pleased that she even knew Bob Dylan and knew the song and could quote it! I HAD done something right in her upbringing.
That night on her pillow I left HER a note.
"You can't always get what you want!" Rolling Stones.....

Ahh, it's the little things that bring pleasure!

bluebird[/quote]
The edge … there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over. HST

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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:32 pm

:biglaugh: bluebird, I love it! I hope she got it a kick out of your answer!
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -

Wow! What a ride!

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Unread postby Raven » Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:35 pm

bluebird wrote:This is a bit off topic, but ~~
Several years ago my teenage daughter and I were having a "discussion" about something she wanted to do and I didn't want her to do...
Anyway, next morning I get up and there on the kitchen island was a note to me with these words on it.

"Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'." (Thanks for posting this, Endora.)

I approached her a bit put out and basically said.... "Don't be quoting Dylan to ME!!"
But then, when I thought about it, I was pleased that she even knew Bob Dylan and knew the song and could quote it! I HAD done something right in her upbringing.
That night on her pillow I left HER a note.
"You can't always get what you want!" Rolling Stones.....

Ahh, it's the little things that bring pleasure!

bluebird
[/quote]

sounds like you are a good mom bluebird!

Raven
"In my experience, those who do not like you fall into two categories: the stupid
and the envious."
John Wilmot, the 2nd Earl of Rochester in The Libertine by Stephen Jeffreys

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Unread postby Raven » Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:36 pm

Liz wrote:101, it's on PBS, but not necessarily the same days and times around the US. I think it's being repeated, too. For me, I think Part 1 was repeated at 3:00 a.m. this morning, but I didn't bother to tape it. I saw Part 2 last night. Check out PBS.org (I think). There was an interesting scene in a car that made me think of Johnny. I won't say much more for those of you who have yet to see it. I felt it was sad, too, Sands. :-/

Endora, thanks for posting the words to the Dylan song. Very fitting. :cool:


can we start a dylan thread by chance??

Raven
"In my experience, those who do not like you fall into two categories: the stupid

and the envious."

John Wilmot, the 2nd Earl of Rochester in The Libertine by Stephen Jeffreys

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Unread postby ThirdArm » Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:37 pm

Squeezing in a little time here at work to answer the question...
For me, the Wave speech was the most poignant and heartbreaking passage in the book. HST seems to come down (in all senses of the word) and writes straight from the heart.

His line, "That our energy would simply prevail," summed it up for me. It's like a tag-line for an entire deluded generation. 30 years later, not much has actually changed and in many ways, we're going backwards--and fast, too.
~No doubt the years have changed me.~

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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:24 pm

Raven, we should probably keep to the code and stay with Johnny related topics as far as starting threads. I don't think it is a problem as we get off on these related tangents in our discussion threads though. :thumbsup:
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -

Wow! What a ride!

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Unread postby CarrieKY » Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:20 pm

bluebird wrote:This is a bit off topic, but ~~
Several years ago my teenage daughter and I were having a "discussion" about something she wanted to do and I didn't want her to do...
Anyway, next morning I get up and there on the kitchen island was a note to me with these words on it.

"Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'.
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'." (Thanks for posting this, Endora.)

I approached her a bit put out and basically said.... "Don't be quoting Dylan to ME!!"
But then, when I thought about it, I was pleased that she even knew Bob Dylan and knew the song and could quote it! I HAD done something right in her upbringing.
That night on her pillow I left HER a note.
"You can't always get what you want!" Rolling Stones.....

Ahh, it's the little things that bring pleasure!

bluebird



Priceless.

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Unread postby CarrieKY » Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:27 pm

JD101 briefly brought up "latch-key kids" in her post. I most heartily agree that this is the missing link in the feminist movement. We were told we could be anything, do anything and "have it all." Yeah, but who's gonna watch Susie and Jack? Child care is amazingly expensive.

Until there is subsidized childcare in this country, the welfare system will groan on and on.....

Ok, done now. :cool:

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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:21 pm

Doing everything and having it all was definitely a myth and I agree with you about child care, Carrie. For me it was about choices and the freedom to pursue the path you wanted.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -

Wow! What a ride!


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