F&LILV Question #17 - Fitz & HST

by Hunter S. Thompson

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Raven
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Unread postby Raven » Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:16 am

a green light on a channel marker is to let you know you are on the right path.

I am so slow.....

you ladies never fail to impress!

Kudos!

Raven
"In my experience, those who do not like you fall into two categories: the stupid
and the envious."
John Wilmot, the 2nd Earl of Rochester in The Libertine by Stephen Jeffreys

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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:14 am

There you go, Raven. Yet another example of cynosure. :cool:
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -
Wow! What a ride!

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Unread postby Liz » Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:35 am

Raven wrote:a green light on a channel marker is to let you know you are on the right path.

I am so slow.....

you ladies never fail to impress!

Kudos!

Raven


No. I'm slow. I hadn't thought of something as simple as that. I always make everything too complicated. The path makes a lot of sense in terms of symbolism to the story--Great Gatsby, that is—and I guess F&L too. I must say that I have read in numerous places that the green light in the story signifies hope and faith--Gatsby's hope that he will win Daisy back and a naïve faith in a positive future. However, the choice of the green light as a symbol of hope and faith could be due to it being also a symbol of the right path--the moral center, as it were--even though Daisy did not represent the moral center--just the opposite. It was his search for the right path to the moral center that he didn't realize he was on.

"Gatsby's wonder when he first picked out the green light at the end of Daisy's dock....his dream must have seemed so close that he could hardly fail to grasp it. He did not know that it was already behind him."

And Raoul Duke was on a search for the right path too, I think, in his own strange way.

You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Unread postby Veronica » Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:01 am

Liz wrote:“something that provides guidance” = Forgive me here - “Counselor”


giving me goose bumps here :-O :bawl:

word "cynosure" is used for whatever attracts attention


Well Johnny is definately cynosure for all of us!
Everything is always okay in the end,
if it's not, then it's not the end.

Today is a gift....Have Fun!

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Unread postby Liz » Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:08 pm

dharma_bum wrote:Absolutely beautiful SRT…

Not all treasure is silver and gold, mate.

If the Jazz Age was awash in the seductions of wealth and the freedom wealth brings, the sixties had it’s own set of seductions that were no less alluring on the surface and ugly underneath. There was the sense—LIZ and DITHOT forgive my wave reference—“of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not is any mean or military sense; we didn’t need that. Our energy would simply prevail.” Just how was that going to happen, really?

There’s an expression I picked up somewhere along the way: “Let’s not drink our own Kool-Aid.” (Jim Jones… People’s Temple, Guyana… mass suicide from poison Kool-Aid.) I think it is very easy to become enraptured by a mythology—especially a lovely, utopian one—to the degree that you cannot imagine anyone else might feel or believe any differently, when of course, someone always does. Perspective in life is a great gift, and I think that FALILVis Duke/Hunter’s (I won’t even TRY to separate them) one to us.


Dharma, are you saying history repeats itself?
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Unread postby Raven » Fri Sep 23, 2005 4:53 pm

one more thing I saw today, while at the goodwill looking for FALILV, I saw a picture of a lighthouse, with an quote underneath saying something to the effect of "guiding light" mostly referring to God.

the light a beacon....


Raven
"In my experience, those who do not like you fall into two categories: the stupid

and the envious."

John Wilmot, the 2nd Earl of Rochester in The Libertine by Stephen Jeffreys

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Unread postby Liz » Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:30 pm

Raven wrote:one more thing I saw today, while at the goodwill looking for FALILV, I saw a picture of a lighthouse, with an quote underneath saying something to the effect of "guiding light" mostly referring to God.

the light a beacon....


Raven


Wow! :-O
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Unread postby dharma_bum » Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:00 pm

Liz wrote:Dharma, are you saying history repeats itself?

I read what I wrote last night and thought to myself… it has been a long week.

Yes, history repeating itself is one part of it, self delusion is the other. When you surround yourself entirely with people who think and feel exactly as you do, there is a danger of loosing your bearings and perspective. It happened to Gatsby with real wealth and glamour. I think that happened to HST in San Francisco with 60’s idealism—the idea that being right and righteous would simply prevail and conquer all of the country’s deep seeded wrongs. The surface was wonderful; the reality of making that kind of change happen with a flower in your hair and acid on your tongue was… naïve. I think FALILV is Hunter’s cautionary tale: Don’t drink your own Kool-Aid or you may end up in Circus Circus with the FEAR.
"You can't broom out your head. You certainly can't broom out your heart. And there's a hot wire between them, and everything shows in the eyes."
—Johnny Depp

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Unread postby Liz » Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:12 pm

dharma_bum wrote:
Liz wrote:Dharma, are you saying history repeats itself?

I read what I wrote last night and thought to myself… it has been a long week.

Yes, history repeating itself is one part of it, self delusion is the other. When you surround yourself entirely with people who think and feel exactly as you do, there is a danger of loosing your bearings and perspective. It happened to Gatsby with real wealth and glamour. I think that happened to HST in San Francisco with 60’s idealism—the idea that being right and righteous would simply prevail and conquer all of the country’s deep seeded wrongs. The surface was wonderful; the reality of making that kind of change happen with a flower in your hair and acid on your tongue was… naïve. I think FALILV is Hunter’s cautionary tale: Don’t drink your own Kool-Aid or you may end up in Circus Circus with the FEAR.


OK. I think I get the Kool-Aid thing now. I had a hard time getting past Jim Jones. I used to regularly visit the small town that his followers came from (while they were still there). Talk about The Fear.

So I think I get your point now. Gatsby's wealth and glamour was Duke's drugs and Duke's idealism was Gatsby's longing for the absent moral center.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Unread postby dharma_bum » Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:29 am

Liz wrote:So I think I get your point now. Gatsby's wealth and glamour was Duke's drugs and Duke's idealism was Gatsby's longing for the absent moral center.


Better said than me... you are on a roll tonght.
"You can't broom out your head. You certainly can't broom out your heart. And there's a hot wire between them, and everything shows in the eyes."

—Johnny Depp

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Unread postby shame_about_rasins » Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:12 am

dharma_bum wrote:
Liz wrote:Dharma, are you saying history repeats itself?

I read what I wrote last night and thought to myself… it has been a long week.

Yes, history repeating itself is one part of it, self delusion is the other. When you surround yourself entirely with people who think and feel exactly as you do, there is a danger of loosing your bearings and perspective. It happened to Gatsby with real wealth and glamour. I think that happened to HST in San Francisco with 60’s idealism—the idea that being right and righteous would simply prevail and conquer all of the country’s deep seeded wrongs. The surface was wonderful; the reality of making that kind of change happen with a flower in your hair and acid on your tongue was… naïve. I think FALILV is Hunter’s cautionary tale: Don’t drink your own Kool-Aid or you may end up in Circus Circus with the FEAR.

I think that is A very GOOD POINT.
So does that mean your saying THE FEAR is a result of
When you surround yourself entirely with people who think and feel exactly as you do, there is a danger of loosing your bearings and perspective.
Yes?
In that case that is very interesting because that then applies to many things like, censorship, organised religion, idealologies, racism. Lots of possibilities, and perhaps that relates back to the gun culture possibility ad part of the fear from The Rum Diary.
I hope that made sense. :blush: :chill:

EDIT: Woops, thought I was still in THE FEAR disscussion :blush: but It kind of relates.
before he came down it never snowed.........

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Unread postby Liz » Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:52 am

shame_about_rasins wrote:
dharma_bum wrote:
Liz wrote:Dharma, are you saying history repeats itself?

I read what I wrote last night and thought to myself… it has been a long week.

Yes, history repeating itself is one part of it, self delusion is the other. When you surround yourself entirely with people who think and feel exactly as you do, there is a danger of loosing your bearings and perspective. It happened to Gatsby with real wealth and glamour. I think that happened to HST in San Francisco with 60’s idealism—the idea that being right and righteous would simply prevail and conquer all of the country’s deep seeded wrongs. The surface was wonderful; the reality of making that kind of change happen with a flower in your hair and acid on your tongue was… naïve. I think FALILV is Hunter’s cautionary tale: Don’t drink your own Kool-Aid or you may end up in Circus Circus with the FEAR.

I think that is A very GOOD POINT.
So does that mean your saying THE FEAR is a result of
When you surround yourself entirely with people who think and feel exactly as you do, there is a danger of loosing your bearings and perspective.
Yes?
In that case that is very interesting because that then applies to many things like, censorship, organised religion, idealologies, racism. Lots of possibilities, and perhaps that relates back to the gun culture possibility ad part of the fear from The Rum Diary.
I hope that made sense. :blush: :chill:

EDIT: Woops, thought I was still in THE FEAR disscussion :blush: but It kind of relates.


That's OK, SAR. I think all of these questions flow into each other. I find myself answering one question and thinking, "wait a mintue, which question am I responding to?" AND I think you've made a good observation, here, SAR. I think that does apply to those things.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Unread postby fansmom » Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:23 pm

Anyone celebrating the anniversary of Fitzgerald's birth today? :happybday: (Sept. 24, 1896).

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Unread postby Endora » Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:54 am

fansmom wrote:Anyone celebrating the anniversary of Fitzgerald's birth today? :happybday: (Sept. 24, 1896).


The BBC showed the film of The Great Gatsby, but that could have been coincidence.
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Unread postby gilly » Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:10 am

I love The Great Gatsby and I can see the similarities between the 2 books..I think both are about the failure of a dream,the American Dream if you want to call it that..But also they are both about the end of a world,of an era, as the main characters knew it,which involved a yearning sense of loss and much disa llusionment..But there was also a great sense of hope,the idea that we need to keep bashing on,to quote Johnny,regardless..To fight...
Life is beautiful.

I have faith in you.


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