F&LILV Question #7: The Women of the Story

by Hunter S. Thompson

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Endora
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Unread postby Endora » Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:35 am

Liz wrote:
shame_about_rasins wrote: I believe all the behaviour in the book is quite bad, but entertaining.


And I wholeheartedly agree, whether I approve of it or not, that it was very entertaining.


But why can behaviour that would be repellent in real life be entertaining on the printed page? If we were to encounter sexism , violence and so on in reality would we laugh? Here we don't even know how factual the account is, so can't excuse ourselves by being certain it's fiction.

(Not criticising anyone here, just a point of interest to me.)
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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:45 am

Endora wrote:
Liz wrote:
shame_about_rasins wrote: I believe all the behaviour in the book is quite bad, but entertaining.


And I wholeheartedly agree, whether I approve of it or not, that it was very entertaining.


But why can behaviour that would be repellent in real life be entertaining on the printed page? If we were to encounter sexism , violence and so on in reality would we laugh? Here we don't even know how factual the account is, so can't excuse ourselves by being certain it's fiction.

(Not criticising anyone here, just a point of interest to me.)


Possibly because it is on the printed page and presented in a humorous way? Since it is not being acted out in front of us in real time or because we are not reading a factual, historical book or article we can make it seem comical? Just a thought...
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Unread postby Endora » Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:05 pm

DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:
Endora wrote:
Liz wrote:
shame_about_rasins wrote: I believe all the behaviour in the book is quite bad, but entertaining.


And I wholeheartedly agree, whether I approve of it or not, that it was very entertaining.


But why can behaviour that would be repellent in real life be entertaining on the printed page? If we were to encounter sexism , violence and so on in reality would we laugh? Here we don't even know how factual the account is, so can't excuse ourselves by being certain it's fiction.

(Not criticising anyone here, just a point of interest to me.)


Possibly because it is on the printed page and presented in a humorous way? Since it is not being acted out in front of us in real time or because we are not reading a factual, historical book or article we can make it seem comical? Just a thought...


Yes, but surely humour can't excuse it? Or perhaps we have to look at the idea of ridiculing something unacceptable to make it seem less threatening or to emphasise the absurdity of the violence or whatever. Could this be what Hunter is aiming to do?
Work hard, learn well, and make peace with the fact that you'll never be as cool as Johnny Depp. GQ.

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Unread postby Liz » Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:11 pm

Endora wrote:
DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:
Endora wrote:
Liz wrote:
shame_about_rasins wrote: I believe all the behaviour in the book is quite bad, but entertaining.


And I wholeheartedly agree, whether I approve of it or not, that it was very entertaining.


But why can behaviour that would be repellent in real life be entertaining on the printed page? If we were to encounter sexism , violence and so on in reality would we laugh? Here we don't even know how factual the account is, so can't excuse ourselves by being certain it's fiction.

(Not criticising anyone here, just a point of interest to me.)


Possibly because it is on the printed page and presented in a humorous way? Since it is not being acted out in front of us in real time or because we are not reading a factual, historical book or article we can make it seem comical? Just a thought...


Yes, but surely humour can't excuse it? Or perhaps we have to look at the idea of ridiculing something unacceptable to make it seem less threatening or to emphasise the absurdity of the violence or whatever. Could this be what Hunter is aiming to do?


I certainly hope so. That's a good story, and I'm sticking with it. :innocent: :lol:
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:02 pm

Endora, you are right. I don't think it excuses it. Humor does make things that are uncomfortable easier to deal with.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -

Wow! What a ride!

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Unread postby abigail » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:34 pm

Endora wrote:But why can behaviour that would be repellent in real life be entertaining on the printed page? If we were to encounter sexism , violence and so on in reality would we laugh? Here we don't even know how factual the account is, so can't excuse ourselves by being certain it's fiction.

Wow this is an interesting conversation! Endora, you've brought up excellent points. And to answer, No, I would never laugh or condone sexism and violence in reality - which is why I'm so disturbed that I find it so hilarious in F&L. Am I blindly discounting the power of the written word? (A ghastly thought for an English major! :-O ) Have I allowed Hunter to temporarily charm the feminist sensibility out of me? This discussion is creating more questions and fewer answers for me. :lol:
"A man must funtion in a pattern of his own choosing. For to let another man define your own goals is to give up one of the most meaningful aspects of life - The definitive act of will, which makes a man an individual. "
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Unread postby shame_about_rasins » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:40 pm

DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:Endora, you are right. I don't think it excuses it. Humor does make things that are uncomfortable easier to deal with.

I don't think we should try and excuse it, it is what it is. And if Hunter meant to to be sexist, if he was sexist(hopefully not), then it just adds to the story I think, leaving the hotel smashes and ruined is hardley ethically right either, but the story wouldn't be the same without it. It would be weird if all the characters in the book were treated in thier normal way EXCEPT for the women.
I really do not think that the way they treat the waitress is ment to be seen as good, or right. It is quite cleary bad what they do, but humour is very powerful, through humour bad realities are presented the most powerfully. We studied the use of humour to present issues that are not usually dealt with in drama, it was very interesting, people did suicide, prison rape ect. They were absolutly horrible but EXTREMELY funny, the shockingness of it is powerful and it can be delt with through humour, people can cope with it, and be reflective of it.

...Hope that made sense.

EDITED to add more :blush:
Last edited by shame_about_rasins on Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:44 pm

sar wrote: It would be weird if all the characters in the book were treated in thier normal way EXCEPT for the women.


True, sar. As some one said the population of Las Vegas in the story is run over by the Mack truck that is Duke and Gonzo without regard to gender!
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -

Wow! What a ride!

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Unread postby shame_about_rasins » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:46 pm

DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:
sar wrote: It would be weird if all the characters in the book were treated in thier normal way EXCEPT for the women.


True, sar. As some one said the population of Las Vegas in the story is run over by the Mack truck that is Duke and Gonzo without regard to gender!

HAHA I like that, I had not heard that before. :capnjack:
before he came down it never snowed.........

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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:51 pm

shame_about_rasins wrote:
DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:
sar wrote: It would be weird if all the characters in the book were treated in thier normal way EXCEPT for the women.


True, sar. As some one said the population of Las Vegas in the story is run over by the Mack truck that is Duke and Gonzo without regard to gender!

HAHA I like that, I had not heard that before. :capnjack:


found it sar:

gypsylee wrote: Everyone was run over like a MAC truck by these two characters, mentioned in passing as they presented different obstacles to their adventures.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -

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Unread postby shame_about_rasins » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:54 pm

DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:
shame_about_rasins wrote:
DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote:
sar wrote: It would be weird if all the characters in the book were treated in thier normal way EXCEPT for the women.


True, sar. As some one said the population of Las Vegas in the story is run over by the Mack truck that is Duke and Gonzo without regard to gender!

HAHA I like that, I had not heard that before. :capnjack:


found it sar:

gypsylee wrote: Everyone was run over like a MAC truck by these two characters, mentioned in passing as they presented different obstacles to their adventures.

Woops, It was such a great quote I asumed it was from other source, should known it was from a zoner :blush: :capnjack:
before he came down it never snowed.........

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Unread postby nebraska » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:08 pm

I think some of what Duke says has to be taken in the context of the time. On the other hand, I was listening recently to some old clips from All In the Family -- Archie Bunker was so unabashedly sexist/racist/judgemental that his very remarks pointed out the stupidity of being that way. So perhaps humor has a place. I don't know if Duke was making fun of people so much as disagreeing with their point of view......

On the other hand, I wonder if we have become so super sensitive that nobody can express themselves any more. Political correctness gets out of control at times, creating artificial terms and postures that are probably not necessary and accomplish nothing but to be annoying. Just my opinion.....

There is a line there somewhere and I am not completely sure where it should be drawn.

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Unread postby DeppLovesBananahs » Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:46 pm

Liz wrote: Mountain Girl


This is WAY off topic, but has anyone seen Lady Killers? That name Mountain Girl is in it....... :blush: so sorry for the off topic-ness.


On the topic of HST and women....I agree with several of you. I think that the women in the book were used as reality. I think the way he used the waitress in a dramatic, climatic way, but to show that Gonzo had anger. Lucy was used to sort of present the issue of paranoia(HA! other question...) that Duke was paranoid or fearful might be a better word that she would let leak information that they did something to her, or let alone had anything to do with her. This to me showed how human Lucy was, how her alone really could change the book. What if she did tell the police about them? She was a challenge for them I think. As for Cameron Diaz's character, she was also meant for reality, I think because her stepping into the elevator being ignored showed how they were so full of drugs, that they couldn't really notice a pretty girl trying to brag.

As lumineuse said, I think you do have to keep in mind it is a novel, and some of it true/not true. I agree with the Stephen King aspect too, because he writes about alot of crazy stuff. That doesn't mean he buries woman in his corn field. :-O Of course that could be why no one eats Stephen King's corn. :-O



I hope this is right, if anyone cares to elaborate or correct me, feel free, because I might not have analyzed this right.... :eyebrow: :-/

Hannah
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Unread postby DeppLovesBananahs » Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:50 pm

nebraska wrote:I think some of what Duke says has to be taken in the context of the time. On the other hand, I was listening recently to some old clips from All In the Family -- Archie Bunker was so unabashedly sexist/racist/judgemental that his very remarks pointed out the stupidity of being that way. So perhaps humor has a place. I don't know if Duke was making fun of people so much as disagreeing with their point of view......

On the other hand, I wonder if we have become so super sensitive that nobody can express themselves any more. Political correctness gets out of control at times, creating artificial terms and postures that are probably not necessary and accomplish nothing but to be annoying. Just my opinion.....

There is a line there somewhere and I am not completely sure where it should be drawn.


I agree with you, sensitivity and paranoia have become greater influences in our world today. I think society should be more open minded and express themselves as freely as Hunter S. Thompson did, and maybe if we did, then we would have fewer senerios like he said she said. And something about a puppy and America. :-O

(I do hope this was right to say, I don't want to offend anyone, just my opinion... :cool: )

Hannah
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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:50 pm

Hannah, I like the way you analyzed it. And that is the great thing about the discussion is, there is no right or wrong way to analyze the book (you are not being graded :-O , promise!) I love the way our discussions build or turn based on each others thoughts. :cool:
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -

Wow! What a ride!


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