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I, Fatty Question #23 ~

by Jerry Stahl

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DeppInTheHeartOfTexas
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I, Fatty Question #23 ~

Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:42 am

Pg. 149: "Before the Reform Movement, managers like Anger or Joe Schenck would encourage successful actors and actresses to buy as much crap as they could: fancy cars, grander mansions, more of everything, as long as it was expensive and wild. Now the talk was about ‘toning things down’. Six million people were unemployed…The folks in charge needed somebody to blame…As long as they could point the finger at us Hollywood types, politicians did not have to defend their own lavish appointments…All of a sudden, America saw sin everywhere. And Hollywood was Sin City.”

Does society still feel that way about Hollywood? Should the industry be held to higher moral standards? Does Hollywood’s product merely reflect society?
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Unread postby Veronica » Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:39 am

Does society still feel that way about Hollywood? Should the industry be held to higher moral standards? Does Hollywood’s product merely reflect society?


I think it depends on you and your moral standards. "Sin" is everywhere its just on tv in Hollywood. Yes, I think Hollywood is what the consumer made it to be. They wouldn't sell it if there wasn't a buyer out there.

Should it be held to a higher moral standard? :-? I think its too late for that.
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Unread postby lumineuse » Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:57 am

I don't think Hollywood needs to be held to a higher standard - they are just people, probably no worse than anyone else. I think it is the media that should be held to a higher standard. It is not news that Britney Spears is pregnant - at least not news that needs to be reported in a one half hour world news program, with all the things going on in the world! Because our news media have become so commercial and so sensational, people like her have been accorded a apparent higher level of importance than they have. The attention that is given to celebrities in the media - particularly the attention given to their worst behaviors - I think tends to glorify those behaviors in minds of young and impressionable people, who really don't need to know every mistake made by another person.
Last edited by lumineuse on Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Veronica » Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:13 am

The attention that is given to celebrities in the media - particularly the attention give to their worst behaviors - I think tends to glorify those behaviors in minds of young and impressionable people, who really don't need to know every mistake made by another person.


You are right there!

people just look for something to blame so they blame tv, movies for what is their responsibility. Take time to give the attention to their kids instead of letting the tv babysit for them.

I am guilty of it I am not pointing fingers. :blush:
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Unread postby Raven » Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:16 am

Veronica wrote:
Does society still feel that way about Hollywood? Should the industry be held to higher moral standards? Does Hollywood’s product merely reflect society?


I think it depends on you and your moral standards. "Sin" is everywhere its just on tv in Hollywood. Yes, I think Hollywood is what the consumer made it to be. They wouldn't sell it if there wasn't a buyer out there.

Should it be held to a higher moral standard? :-? I think its too late for that.


Thanks Veronica! my sentiments exactly!

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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:38 am

So you are you all saying that Hollywood is a reflection of society or that they are just putting out what the public wants to buy?

I agree with you lumineuse about the news media. When I turn on the morning shows looking for news as I am getting ready for work sometimes I'm not sure if I am watching news or Entertainment Tonight even when they are calling it a news story.
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Unread postby Veronica » Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:02 pm

So you are you all saying that Hollywood is a reflection of society or that they are just putting out what the public wants to buy?


Hollywood sells what we all fantasize :blush: about as far as the content of movies. The lifestyle that some people live is the product of what making alot of money can do to you. Is it a reflection of society? Not my world, although I wish I could afford some Ritz. The choices people make that are considered "Sin" is everywhere not just in Hollywood.
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Unread postby Liz » Wed Jul 27, 2005 12:21 pm

Veronica wrote:
So you are you all saying that Hollywood is a reflection of society or that they are just putting out what the public wants to buy?


Hollywood sells what we all fantasize :blush: about as far as the content of movies. The lifestyle that some people live is the product of what making alot of money can do to you. Is it a reflection of society? Not my world, although I wish I could afford some Ritz. The choices people make that are considered "Sin" is everywhere not just in Hollywood.


But some people would argue that if not for Hollywood glamorizing it, it might be less prominent. I'm not saying I agree with them. I'm just saying that people like to blame Hollywood and the media for it. Whereas I think a lot of it has to do with how one is raised or what one is exposed to. I think people need to realize that there is a difference between what they see in movies, TV, music and video games and reality. I'm personally not in favor of blaming teen violence, suicide, etc. on the video games they play or the music they listen to. Only certain individuals are susceptible to such influences, and I think they would probably crack no matter what unless there was some intervention.
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Unread postby Veronica » Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:23 pm

Liz wrote:
Veronica wrote:
So you are you all saying that Hollywood is a reflection of society or that they are just putting out what the public wants to buy?


Hollywood sells what we all fantasize :blush: about as far as the content of movies. The lifestyle that some people live is the product of what making alot of money can do to you. Is it a reflection of society? Not my world, although I wish I could afford some Ritz. The choices people make that are considered "Sin" is everywhere not just in Hollywood.


But some people would argue that if not for Hollywood glamorizing it, it might be less prominent. I'm not saying I agree with them. I'm just saying that people like to blame Hollywood and the media for it.



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Unread postby Bix » Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:24 pm

I don't think Hollywood should be held to a higher standard in the sense that prompted the forming of the Hayes Commission and tries to dictate what is and what is not moral or sinful. For instance, I don't think nudity is immoral - it's our natural state. If I would be naked in the same situation the actor is portraying, then let's have nudity. I don't think sex or talk about sex is sinful and I miss the days when we had frank and open sexually-driven plots, movies that really dealt with the stuff we go through in our quest to find love and happiness. Instead we have violence and mayhem at every turn. I do think killing as the answer to every problem is immoral - and yet we see plenty of that in the movies and on tv. So who is going to decide what the standard is?

I would like there to be a way that Hollywood could be held to a high standard of excellent scriptwriting, production values, etc. - but there isn't any way to dictate that, either. (Thank goodness, or we'd never have had Ed Wood with his huge heart and passion and total lack of talent at carrying out his dreams! :lol: ) Well, maybe we can dictate this with our pocketbooks - but somehow all those blow-em-up thrillers bring in the big bucks too.
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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:28 pm

Bix wrote: Well, maybe we can dictate this with our pocketbooks - but somehow all those blow-em-up thrillers bring in the big bucks too.


GUYS!!!! :lol:
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -

Wow! What a ride!

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Unread postby Bix » Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:37 pm

:biglaugh: Amen to that!
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Unread postby ThirdArm » Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:52 pm

I agree with Bix, that the higher standard Hollywood should be held to is excellent screenwriting and good movies. But that doesn't necesssarily mean 'no sex, no violence.' The problem I have with people who go on about everything that's wrong with the entertainment industry is that they seem to focus exclusively on the moral content and not on individual responsibility.

Instead of taking responsibility, such as simply not paying to see a movie full of sex and violence that's portrayed in an gratuitous and pointless fashion; or, closer to home, just using the remote control and turning off the dang TV, they want to impose controls.

It completely escapes me that they cannot acknowledge that the ultimate control is right within their own decision-making will. They can turn off the TV, not pay money for movies they don't approve of. They can take the time to talk to their kids about appropriate behavior. These are all things that actually strengthen family cohesiveness, cost no money, and really do work. Instead, those critics want to impose their opinions on and restrict with legislation the creative process.

The bottom line always has been: if it didn't make money, they wouldn't put it out there.
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Unread postby Betty Sue » Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:06 pm

Not much to add as I jump in here so late--many well expressed opinions already!! But not much has been said about society holding Hollywood stars to a higher standard in their personal lives. I don't think the standard should be higher than what we expect of ourselves, but it does seem to me that it should be higher than what it is for so many of them. So many find some really weird places to spend all that money! But I also find myself feeling sorry for stars who goof up and have it be the fodder for tabloids and talk shows for months. The rest of us at least get the chance to recover with a bit more privacy, which is pretty helpful.
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Unread postby Bix » Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:33 pm

CharlotteinCA wrote: Instead of taking responsibility, such as simply not paying to see a movie full of sex and violence that's portrayed in an gratuitous and pointless fashion; or, closer to home, just using the remote control and turning off the dang TV, they want to impose controls.

It completely escapes me that they cannot acknowledge that the ultimate control is right within their own decision-making will. They can turn off the TV, not pay money for movies they don't approve of. They can take the time to talk to their kids about appropriate behavior. These are all things that actually strengthen family cohesiveness, cost no money, and really do work. Instead, those critics want to impose their opinions on and restrict with legislation the creative process.


Excellent point, Charlotte. This is one where I could definitly get going on my :soapbox: ! I really can't stand all the finger-pointing and blame-placing that goes on today in place of people taking personal responsibility for their own and their childrens' actions. Hollywood is not the problem here, folks!
Live! Life is a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death! ~Auntie Mame


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