FI Question #29: The Killer B's

by Tom Robbins

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DeppInTheHeartOfTexas
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FI Question #29: The Killer B's

Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:26 am

Attention Noodlemantras! Sit up straight, face the front of the class and sharpen those #2 pencils! Today and tomorrow are our last two questions for Fierce Invalids Home from Hot Climates. Thank you for all your great answers! Liz and I both think this has been one of our best discussions! Even though our official discussion will be over, feel free to revisit any of our previous questions and reopen the discussion. Our next book discussion will be Roald Dahl’s Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, tidbits start soon! Be sure and check the ONBC calendar at the top of the board for a full schedule of our upcoming reads. And now, our next to the last question for Fierce Invalids…



(pg. 261) “B is for Belief. B for belonging. If you don’t Belong among us you can’t Belong with us unless you Believe what we Believe…Believe. Belong. Or Be damned. A need to belong somewhere, to believe in something? It’s virtually genetic.” What is your opinion of the “Killer B’s”?
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Unread postby Veronica » Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:46 am

(pg. 261) “B is for Belief. B for belonging. If you don’t Belong among us you can’t Belong with us unless you Believe what we Believe…Believe. Belong. Or Be damned. A need to belong somewhere, to believe in something? It’s virtually genetic.” What is your opinion of the “Killer B’s”?


first I want to thank Liz & DITHOT again for a job well done!!

I dont like what the Killer B's is saying here. To me it reminded me of "clicks" & "the Jones". things that have always turned me off. I do think alot of people crave to belong somewhere. there is nothing wrong with that. Its great to have a group to be around for support or fun. I think its great to feel passion for something & believe in it but to exclude someone for not agreeing is wrong. That reminds me of what is said in the movie Chocolat that I love so much. Im sure I will get the exact wording wrong but its something like "Its not what we dont do its what we do & its not who we exclude but who we include that matters."
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Unread postby Charlene » Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:23 am

It could be the slogan for what is wrong with this world; i.e. Iraq's situation

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Unread postby fansmom » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:48 pm

But on the other hand, what's a community without shared beliefs? If we didn't believe Johnny was the best (and sexiest) actor in the world, what would we have in common? If we didn't believe that the ONBC was a great on-line book club, why would we bother coming here every day? The word "community" means we have beliefs in common.

I'm not saying we need to be a judgmental community, or that we need to "damn" those who don't think or feel the way we do, but I do think we find it difficult to bond with those we don't feel that we have anything in common.

Oh, and I Believe that Liz and DITHOT are the greatest, and that I am in debt to them for hours of pleasurable reading and thinking.
Last edited by fansmom on Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unread postby luvdepp » Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:04 pm

I agree fansmom that shared beliefs are what bring us together. ONBC is made up of people who love Johnny, books and a good discussion of both. But we are free to share our opinions and differences here. I think the TR quote is referring to a sense that you can't belong if you don't believe exactly the same thing as the group. And the "Believe, Belong or be damned" is just scary. Too much along the lines of religous fanatics. I do think that TR is right in saying that wanting that feeling of belonging is genetic. We are a social animal and need to feel like we are a part of community.
Veronica - I love that quote from Chocolat...so true.

I join the others in thanking Liz and DITHOT for bringing us together here at ONBC and leading us in such great discussions of books and everything Johnny. You both do a great job! :cool:
"So we shall let the reader answer this question for himself, who is the happier man, he who has braved the storm of life and lived or he who has stayed securely on the shore and merely existed." ~HST~

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Unread postby Veronica » Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:08 pm

I can see your point, fansmom, because Im sure if someone came on this board & said a bunch of bad stuff about our Johnny their butts would be kicked right on out. Not saying that people arent allowed to have negative feelings about our Johnny, (how could they :bawl: ) But this is a fan site made for him so its no place for Depp haters. (:bawl: I hate to even say that. How could anyone hate our Johnny! )
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Unread postby lumineuse » Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:30 pm

This question is fascinating to me, because I am currently reading The Masks of God by Joseph Campbell, which was on the list of required reading for enlightenment that Robbins mentioned during the one interview that was posted in a tidbit. These books espouse the notion that we all come from a mythogenic background that originated in the dawn almost of hominids. He cites beautiful evidence from pre-Neanderthal times. It's really fascinating. Mythology changed dramatically as civilizations learned cultivation, and common mythological themes were changed according to local circumstances, but not so much as to be unrecognizable. I believe the upshot of the work is to show that we really all share the same myths, even though we have internalized our own variations to the extent that something like the Crusades could occur. The mythological system had as one of its major purposes at the beginning to insure the commitment of the individual to community. A threat to the mythological system would be viewed as a threat to the whole society. So in a sense, while it may not be genetic, it is certainly very close, in that our species depended upon its shared mythology for its very survival from the very beginning. No wonder that even today, cultures protect their mythologies so violently. The hope is that we are beginning to see the shared mythology of mankind, and move beyond the divisiveness.

I have only just started the second book of this four part series, and needless to say, it is not light reading. But it is very thought-provoking and interesting to me. And having started these books on Robbins' recommendation, makes me see a little of Joseph Campbell's influence in the Killer B passage.
Last edited by lumineuse on Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby Veronica » Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:33 pm

lumineuse wrote:This question is fascinating to me, because I am currently reading The Masks of God by Joseph Campbell, which was on the list of required reading for enlightenment that Robbins mentioned during the one interview that was posted in a tidbit. These books espouse the notion that we all come from a mythogenic background that originated in the dawn almost of hominids. He cites beautiful evidence from pre-Neanderthal times. It's really fascinating. Mythology changed dramatically as civilizations learned cultivation, and common mythological themes were changed according to local circumstances, but not so much as to be unrecognizable. I believe the upshot of the work is to show that we really all share the same myths, even though we have internalized our own variations to the extent that something like the Crusades could occur. The mythological system had as one of its major purposes at the beginning to insure the commitment of the individual to community. A threat to the mythological system would be viewed as a threat to the whole society. So in a sense, while it may be be genetic, it is certainly very close, in that our species depended upon its shared mythology for its very survival from the very beginning. No wonder that even today, cultures protect their mythologies so violently. The hope is that we are beginning to see the shared mythology of mankind, and move beyond the divisiveness.

I have only just started the second book of this four part series, and needless to say, it is not light reading. But it is very thought-provoking and interesting to me. And having started these books on Robbins' recommendation, makes me see a little of Joseph Campbell's influence in the Killer B passage.



Im just sayen it, everyones thinkin it.....them are alot of long words in there missy....were not but a bunch of humble pirates here.

(lolol just teasing!!!)
Last edited by Veronica on Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:53 pm

lumineuse wrote: The hope is that we are beginning to see the shared mythology of mankind, and move beyond the divisiveness.


Cheers to that idea! :cool: I applaud your efforts in the extra-curricular reading library lumineuse and thanks for sharing!

I think mankind needs the pack, the belonging. We are social animals and while it may not be genetic it is certainly something we gravitate toward and have needed for our survival. We certainly find individual validation when we find others that share our beliefs. It is when the group begins to believe its ideas are superior to those of another group that the problems occur. The Killer B's to me represent political and religious intolerance and the disenfranchisement and/or violence that can ensue when one group tries to enforce its beliefs on the "non-believers".


veronica wrote: Im just sayen it, everyones thinkin it.....them are alot of long words in there missy....were not but a bunch of humble pirates here.

(lolol just teasing!!!)


:lol: But good words indeed!
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Wow! What a ride!

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Unread postby lumineuse » Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:45 pm

Veronica wrote:Im just sayen it, everlyones thinkin it.....them are alot of long words in there missy....were not but a bunch of humble pirates here.

(lolol just teasing!!!)


:lol: You oughta try reading that book!
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Unread postby axelsgirl » Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:38 pm

DITHOT, I agree with you , the Killer B's also make me think of political or religious groups that are intolerant of any beliefs other than their own. Of course we humans have a biological and social need to be part of a group, to validate our feelings and outlook on life and to meet our physical needs. But when that group dictates how we are supposed to think and feel and what beliefs are right and wrong , that to me crosses over to fanaticism and I deffinatly wouldn't want to Belong to the B's!
LIZ and DITHOT thanks for all of your work putting together these book discussions, I have never participated before and found it to be fun and enlightening and thought provoking! :lilyrose: :wave: :thanks:
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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:16 pm

axelsgirl wrote: I have never participated before and found it to be fun and enlightening and thought provoking!


Glad you enjoyed ONBC! :bounce: We have a lot of fun putting it together. I hope you will join us for the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. It may not be as thought provoking :hypnotic: but I promise it will be fun! :lol:

lumineuse wrote: You oughta try reading that book!


I'm just glad we have you to explain it to us, lumineuse! :eyebrow:
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Unread postby suec » Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:30 pm

Last question tomorrow! :bawl: Oh well, it was great while it lasted... fantastic questions, Liz and DIDHOT and ideas everyone! I have loved this discussion!

Belonging, I think, is crucial. It is something we are all acutely aware of. How many of us have identified with Johnny as an outsider? Domino says to Switters, A human who belongs to no group or believes in nothing?... No longer human at all." She unwittingly adds to the list of criteria provided by Maestra. Belonging is a fundamental need. The trouble comes in meeting the terms for it. I agree with fansmom. There has to be some common ground in any relationship, for bonds to be formed. There is a fine dividing line sometimes between that and suppressing your individuality in the pressure to conform. I think, though, that belonging to a community is an act of free will and that if it doesn't, then that community becomes something else.
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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:50 pm

suec wrote: I agree with fansmom. There has to be some common ground in any relationship, for bonds to be formed. There is a fine dividing line sometimes between that and suppressing your individuality in the pressure to conform. I think, though, that belonging to a community is an act of free will and that if it doesn't, then that community becomes something else.


Free will...another topic that appears frequently in FI. That fine line between conforming and keeping our individuality. I think this is one of Robbins points about the mass media as well. We seem to keep finding our discussion running in a circular fashion, don't we?
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -

Wow! What a ride!

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Unread postby Liz » Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:53 pm

DeppInTheHeartOfTexas wrote: We seem to keep finding our discussion running in a circular fashion, don't we? [/b]


Kind of like Finnegan's Wake.



Hey everyone, I've enjoyed reading your answers--all good ones. I had a relapse with the flu today--thus the reason for my disappearance. I tend to agree with DITHOT's thoughts about the Killer B's representing religious and political intolerance. I do think we need to belong and that is a good thing as long as it isn't taken too far. I certainly enjoy "belonging" to the Zone and ONBC. You are a supportive, intelligent, insightful, giving and fun group. And I am honored to be a part of this group. :disco:
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