The Libertine Question #2A - Parallels

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The Libertine Question #2A - Parallels

Unread postby Liz » Sat Oct 16, 2004 2:44 pm

Sands wrote:There are also similarities with Johnny himself, in terms of the conflict between his public bad-boy image and the intelligent sensitive man we know him to be. Johnny certainly knows what it's like to be misunderstood.


This brings me to a new question to pose to all of you:

Do you see any parallels between Johnny Wilmot and Johnny Depp?


LIZ NOTE: Don't worry. There won't normally be 2 questions per day. This is more like a topic within a topic, as it were.

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LIZ NOTE: This is a very nice version of this pic. Very nice artwork. I hope whoever revised this cover doesn't mind that I'm posting it. :pray:
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Unread postby lumineuse » Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:25 pm

Certainly the wit! And I think for a while our Johnny had that same sense of meaninglessness in life that drove Wilmot to so many self-destructive acts. Thankfully, that seems to have passed!
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Unread postby Larkwoodgirl » Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:36 pm

I think that they are similar in that they are both extremely bright, creative and artistic individuals.

Also, they are similar in sharing a certain level of insight into the hypocrisy and destructiveness of their respective environments (i.e. Hollywood and the Court).
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Unread postby suec » Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:36 pm

A certain refusal to conform to what others want. A desire to push the boundaries in their work. I also wonder about similarities in their childhoods. Wilmot's father's absence due to the Civil War, though i don't know much about the relationship with his mother; and Johnny's bond with his mother?

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Unread postby FANtasticJD » Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:42 pm

They both had a strong brush with religious fundamentalism as young people and both rejected that. Wilmot repudiated it yet found his way back toward the end of his life. Johnny has said he respects the mystical qualities of all religions but seems to pay only a nodding acquaintance to Christianity in his every day life.

Similarly, both seem attracted to the outsider view of life. Johnny gravitates toward lost souls and could care less about what the society of his milieu (Hollywood) thinks of him. Wilmot actively pursued the more outre, anti-establishment aspects of his society and loved flaunting them in the faces of the king and others of his social station.
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Unread postby Still-Rather-Timid » Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:00 pm

Some of Rochester's lines about the impact of first seeing Liz Barrie remind me of Johnny's similarly romantic remarks about being smitten by Vanessa, eg. "I knew at that moment when she came up to me, I was ruined. . . . O. K., I'm done." Rochester uses more visceral, bodily metaphors, but he means the same thing when he says "Something rotten has gotten into my guts, " and "To arrive on the scene a Goliath and to quit it reeling, clutching the head, the heart, the cods, unsure where the stone had hit, but sensing in every part its fatal sting."

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Unread postby FANtasticJD » Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:12 pm

"Something rotten has gotten into my guts, "

Actually, this part is a reference to his diseases. He is beginning to suffer the ill effects of the alcohol abuse if not, yet, syphilis. Here's where seeing the movie helped: he was in physical pain when he said this to Allcock. There are other hints of his physical decline throughout the play that are easy to overlook without the visuals.
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Unread postby Still-Rather-Timid » Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:38 pm

"Something rotten in the guts" certainly refers directly to physical disease, but I believe that, like so many lines in the play, it has many layers of meaning. One interpretation does not cancel out another. It is quite possible that the film version interprets this line more particularly--but the line in the play's script is all I have to discuss here! The film is one interpretation of the play--and a more fixed one at that, given that an actor on the stage would have the freedom to give lines different emphases in different performances.

You lucky folks who saw the film--you're not always going to be pulling the "Pirate!" maneuver on the rest of us, are you? :capnjack: :soapbox:

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The Play and more

Unread postby Kazren » Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:04 am

I've been reading more than just the play, "The Libertine," on Rochester, and apparently many of you have also read on him.

It is strange how the two books I have have totally different views of his personal life. One claims he had a loveless marriage and was miserable all the time, the other that he had a happy marriage.

He talks of himself saying he was drunk for something like 12 years non-stop, so I imagine he did have more than a few liver symptoms, and I have done some research on syphilis. There is no reports on him having any disfigurement (so far in my research) and that is not common actually. It can hit the cardiac-ciruclatory system and lie dormant for years, then show up up to 46 years later with extremem fatigue and weakness, which he did suffer from near the end.
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The Play and more

Unread postby Kazren » Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:06 am

I've been reading more than just the play, "The Libertine," on Rochester, and apparently many of you have also read on him.

It is strange how the two books I have have totally different views of his personal life. One claims he had a loveless marriage and was miserable all the time, the other that he had a happy marriage.

He talks of himself saying he was drunk for something like 12 years non-stop, so I imagine he did have more than a few liver symptoms, and I have done some research on syphilis. There is no reports on him having any disfigurement (so far in my research) and that is not common actually. It can hit the cardiac-ciruclatory system and lie dormant for years, then show up up to 46 years later with extremem fatigue and weakness, which he did suffer from near the end.
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Unread postby Liz » Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:44 am

Some of the parallels I see are:

- I can see that many of us clearly like the Earl. I think that maybe our reaction to JD is similar to those who were/are charmed by Wilmot, and for many of the same reasons.

- They are both iconoclasts.

- Rochester advises Barry to act creatively but with truth. I would say that JD also strives for that in his acting. He has said something to the effect of: if you don’t bring a little of yourself into a part you are basically just lying.

- They are both true to themselves.
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Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:34 am

I think they were/are both complicated individuals and very deep thinkers and keen observers of their environment. I think they both feel very deeply and that causes pain sometimes. They are both very gifted artistically and had to deal with the intense glare of fame. However Johnny seems to have been able to pull himself out of the dark side unlike Rochester.
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