Wilmot Tour 2006

by Stephen Jeffreys

Moderator: Liz

User avatar
Jackslady
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:17 pm
Location: The Captain's Cabin

Status: Offline

Unread postby Jackslady » Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:17 pm

Yes, I'm thinking Wilmot's mysterious "sixth child" is a local story, since there seems to be no evidence supporting this matter in any of the well known biographies of the earl. It is strange because most of JW's biographers have probably visited Spelsbury, and you would think they would have the knowledge/access to records to delve into this matter. Being only an amateur researcher I've no idea how to investigate further :eyebrow:

How I would love to see the fragments of Rochester's letters held in the British Museum!
"Easy on the goods darlin!"
"Tis not an easy thing to be entirely happy, but to be kind is very easy, and that is the greatest measure of happiness"-John Wilmot, Earl of Rochester

*Special thanks to es for help with my lovely avatar*

User avatar
Gilbert's Girl
Posts: 162691
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 3:14 am
Location: UK

Status: Offline

Unread postby Gilbert's Girl » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:01 am

Jackslady wrote:Yes, I'm thinking Wilmot's mysterious "sixth child" is a local story, since there seems to be no evidence supporting this matter in any of the well known biographies of the earl. It is strange because most of JW's biographers have probably visited Spelsbury, and you would think they would have the knowledge/access to records to delve into this matter. Being only an amateur researcher I've no idea how to investigate further :eyebrow:

How I would love to see the fragments of Rochester's letters held in the British Museum!


Of course they may have dismissed it as one of those stoies without proof or basis. Many aristocrats fathered children on their servants it was not unusual so it may be they did not bother to write about it. When I get a spare moment in town I will have a look through the registers and see what it says about Wilmot.

User avatar
Gilbert's Girl
Posts: 162691
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 3:14 am
Location: UK

Status: Offline

Unread postby Gilbert's Girl » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:47 am

since I had a few minutes while in town today I went into the library and checked out the Spelsbury transcript of the Parsih Registers.
Nothing much really to report it had Rochesters' burial dates
1680 August 17 Rochester, John Earle off
1681 August 20 Rochester, Elizabeth Countess of
1681 December 7 Rochester, John Lord
1695 March 18 Rochester, Anne Countess Dowager

It also in 1655 had this written
And that on three several Lords Days viz the 13th, 20th and 27th days of May in the Year of Our Lord 1655, the agreement of marriage was published in the Parish Church of Spelsbury, Oxon at the close of the morning exercise between Sir Henry Lee of Dichly in the same parish, sone & heire of Sir Francis Henry Lee deceased and of the Right Honerable Anne, Viscountess Willmot.

Something I did note was the lack of illigitimate children born in the Parish ,so if there was a child born to one of the servants it was not baptised in Spelsbury as far as I could see, but since I couldn't recall dates as I only popped in on the offchance I was not prepared although I did look through that period.

I had a brief look in the Adderbury Registers but did not note anything other than the fact that there were a few entries ,I believe one was Wilmots marriage to Elizabeth.

User avatar
debs
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:33 pm
Location: UK

Status: Offline

Unread postby debs » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:30 pm

Thanks for your detailed report Jackslady. I've been thinking of doing a 'Wilmot tour' myself, hopefully next summer, so I've saved your info and hopefully will be able to make use of it then. It's such a pity though that there's so little left to see. His portrait is hung in some house or museum somewhere isn't it? I must check one of my books to find out where.

I visited Mosely Old Hall last year where his father hid during his escape from Worcester with the king, it's only a small place but very atmospheric, I absolutely adored it, it's well worth the visit if you're in the area.

User avatar
Jackslady
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:17 pm
Location: The Captain's Cabin

Status: Offline

Unread postby Jackslady » Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:09 pm

GG, thanks for your new info, I've only just checked back on this thread after a couple of weeks. One curiosity I've come across is that there is no record of John Wilmot being christened at Spelsbury Church, I'm wondering if he was christened at Adderbury? I wish I'd been able to go inside Adderbury Church and see if there was any info there.

Debs, that's great that you're thinking of doing a Wilmot tour, too! If you pm me, I'll be happy to send you any info you may need! Although many of the buildings associated with Rochester have undergone alteration I still felt the trip was well worth it and endlessly fascinating. High Lodge and Spelsbury Church are particularly moving. I also gained a feel for the area where Rochester grew up, and how remote life in the country would have been then, as distinct from his life in London. And if the buildings have changed, the surroundings still retain something of the past, the sinister woods surrounding High Lodge being a good example.

A copy of the famous "monkey portrait" can be seen in the National Portrait Gallery, in the Stuart Room. The original belongs to the Earl of Warwick, who took it abroad with him when he left England some years ago having been forced to pay punitive death duties on Warwick Castle. Another portrait of Rochester is currently on display in the Victoria & Albert Museum.
"Easy on the goods darlin!"
"Tis not an easy thing to be entirely happy, but to be kind is very easy, and that is the greatest measure of happiness"-John Wilmot, Earl of Rochester

*Special thanks to es for help with my lovely avatar*

User avatar
Gilbert's Girl
Posts: 162691
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 3:14 am
Location: UK

Status: Offline

Unread postby Gilbert's Girl » Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:13 pm

Jackslady wrote:GG, thanks for your new info, I've only just checked back on this thread after a couple of weeks. One curiosity I've come across is that there is no record of John Wilmot being christened at Spelsbury Church, I'm wondering if he was christened at Adderbury? I wish I'd been able to go inside Adderbury Church and see if there was any info there.

Debs, that's great that you're thinking of doing a Wilmot tour, too! If you pm me, I'll be happy to send you any info you may need! Although many of the buildings associated with Rochester have undergone alteration I still felt the trip was well worth it and endlessly fascinating. High Lodge and Spelsbury Church are particularly moving. I also gained a feel for the area where Rochester grew up, and how remote life in the country would have been then, as distinct from his life in London. And if the buildings have changed, the surroundings still retain something of the past, the sinister woods surrounding High Lodge being a good example.

A copy of the famous "monkey portrait" can be seen in the National Portrait Gallery, in the Stuart Room. The original belongs to the Earl of Warwick, who took it abroad with him when he left England some years ago having been forced to pay punitive death duties on Warwick Castle. Another portrait of Rochester is currently on display in the Victoria & Albert Museum.


I think that the children by his mothers second marraige were baptised at Spelsbury although I did not check properly.
I will check Adderbury when I go back again but I am sure there was no record.
Sometimes during the period of the Civil War and the Commonwealth period, they were not recorded ,although Oxfordshire being a Royalist stronghold does seem to have a good coverage.

User avatar
debs
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:33 pm
Location: UK

Status: Offline

Unread postby debs » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:49 pm

Jackslady. At the moment I've just saved your information, I will check it out properly next Spring when I start to plan my trip.
I will mail you then if you don't mind, if I need any more info, thanks for the offer.

incandescent
Posts: 327
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:07 am
Location: Western Australia

Status: Offline

Unread postby incandescent » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:55 pm

Fascinating reading, thanks for all this

I'm on a trip home to the UK to see my folks and we visited the 17th C Kingston Lacy house in Dorset today, whilst I was interested in the paintings and archtitecture and 1001 other things contained within, I couldn't help wondering if JW had been up to his old tricks somewhere about the place. It's not too far from London or Oxfordshire so who knows?
You're about a quart low.

User avatar
Gilbert's Girl
Posts: 162691
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 3:14 am
Location: UK

Status: Offline

Unread postby Gilbert's Girl » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:41 pm

incandescent wrote:Fascinating reading, thanks for all this

I'm on a trip home to the UK to see my folks and we visited the 17th C Kingston Lacy house in Dorset today, whilst I was interested in the paintings and archtitecture and 1001 other things contained within, I couldn't help wondering if JW had been up to his old tricks somewhere about the place. It's not too far from London or Oxfordshire so who knows?


Kingston Lacy lovely house was there this year again, not sure I understand your meaning :perplexed:

incandescent
Posts: 327
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:07 am
Location: Western Australia

Status: Offline

Unread postby incandescent » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:00 pm

It is lovely isn't it
I mean I kept imagining JW/JD getting roguish in the bedchambers (with me :blush: ) when I should have been concerntrating on " les objets d'art"
You're about a quart low.

User avatar
Gilbert's Girl
Posts: 162691
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 3:14 am
Location: UK

Status: Offline

Unread postby Gilbert's Girl » Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:11 am

incandescent wrote:It is lovely isn't it
I mean I kept imagining JW/JD getting roguish in the bedchambers (with me :blush: ) when I should have been concerntrating on " les objets d'art"


:biglaugh:

User avatar
Jackslady
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:17 pm
Location: The Captain's Cabin

Status: Offline

Unread postby Jackslady » Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:34 pm

Glad you're enjoying your trip, incandescant :cool:
"Easy on the goods darlin!"
"Tis not an easy thing to be entirely happy, but to be kind is very easy, and that is the greatest measure of happiness"-John Wilmot, Earl of Rochester

*Special thanks to es for help with my lovely avatar*

incandescent
Posts: 327
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:07 am
Location: Western Australia

Status: Offline

Unread postby incandescent » Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:00 pm

Yes thanks, Jackslady, up to the Big Smoke tomorrow for some real fun.
You're about a quart low.

User avatar
Charlie
Posts: 3480
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:51 am
Location: England

Status: Offline

Unread postby Charlie » Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:43 pm

I think I read somewhere that Johnny stayed in Chipping Campden at The Cotswold House Hotel whilst filming part of The Libertine does anyone know if that is correct and would it have been at these places the filming was taking place if so?
Stay true to your path and make a positive difference to the lives of those you touch.

incandescent
Posts: 327
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:07 am
Location: Western Australia

Status: Offline

Unread postby incandescent » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:15 am

Hello
I was at Kenwood House on Hampstead Heath today and in the Suffolk Collection of portraits I saw an Earl Of Rochester................... but it was laurence pyke - I think - from 1685. Surely some relation

Also splendid portraits of Kings Chuck 1&2, as they are known colloquially.

Well worth a visit if you are in North London, innit.
You're about a quart low.


Return to “The Libertine”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest