BENNY & JOON Question #2—“How Sick Is She?” Mental Illness and Fairy Tales

Let’s talk about the treatment of mental illness in BENNY & JOON.

There isn’t much that’s controversial about BENNY & JOON, but one aspect of the film that is criticized is its handling of Joon’s mental condition. One complaint is that the script presents “a romanticized conception of mental illness” that suggests that the mentally ill are more artistic (“Van Gogh. Ear.”) and creative than the rest of society. More serious is the charge that the film treats Joon’s disorder as a convenient plot device rather than a true mental illness, even at the risk of making her character inconsistent: she has psychotic breakdowns to further the plot (as when she drives Mrs. Smail away at the beginning of the movie, plays with fire in the Pearls’ home, or loses control on the bus with Sam), but otherwise seems normal and highly intelligent. Such wild swings in her behavior would be more plausible (and less contrived) if it had been established that she’s fine when she takes medication and out-of-control when she decides to stop taking it (a frequent problem with schizophrenics and those with bipolar disorder), but the film does not say that. We never hear Benny telling Sam, “Make sure Joon takes her meds,” do we?

So here are some questions to ponder:


**Did you find any aspects of the handling of Joon’s mental illness either troubling or unconvincing?


**Does it seem somewhat irresponsible for the filmmakers to suggest that Joon and Sam can live happily and safely together in an apartment at the end of the film? After all, Sam wasn’t able to help Joon when she started to freak out on the bus. Isn’t it a bit of a naïve oversimplification to suggest that if Joon is happy, she won’t hear voices, or that the love of a good man like Sam will assure that Joon will never again have the urge to set the house on fire?


**Do you think Sam is now up to the task of safeguarding Joon? Why?


**Even if you think the ending is implausible, can you suspend your disbelief and enjoy it anyway, in a fairy-tale way? (Fairy tales don’t have to be logical.) Would you have preferred to see the movie end with Sam and Joon embracing outside the hospital?


**In the original version of the screenplay, Joon burned the house down before she ran away with Sam. I think we can all agree that the revision was a wise idea! Would your feelings about the film’s happy ending alter if Joon had actually burned down the Pearl home?


Feel free to respond to any or all of the above! We'd love to hear your ideas.



Part-Time Poet

**Did you find any aspects of the handling of Joon’s mental illness either troubling or unconvincing?

I don't have any experience in this field so I think its hard to comment. But I think it works for the film as a whole


**Does it seem somewhat irresponsible for the filmmakers to suggest that Joon and Sam can live happily and safely together in an apartment at the end of the film? After all, Sam wasn’t able to help Joon when she started to freak out on the bus. Isn’t it a bit of a naïve oversimplification to suggest that if Joon is happy, she won’t hear voices, or that the love of a good man like Sam will assure that Joon will never again have the urge to set the house on fire?

I don't think so, I'm sure there are many people in the same situation that carry on with fairly "normal" lives and they were being kept an eye on presumably by all concerned.Actually we don't really know what exactly is wrong with her, what her illness is exactly.


**Do you think Sam is now up to the task of safeguarding Joon? Why?
Perhaps he has grown up and he ahndled her pretty well even when she was on the bus even though he had to call for help.


**Even if you think the ending is implausible, can you suspend your disbelief and enjoy it anyway, in a fairy-tale way? (Fairy tales don’t have to be logical.) Would you have preferred to see the movie end with Sam and Joon embracing outside the hospital?

It was fine by me.


**In the original version of the screenplay, Joon burned the house down before she ran away with Sam. I think we can all agree that the revision was a wise idea! Would your feelings about the film’s happy ending alter if Joon had actually burned down the Pearl home?

Probably because she would needed to have ended up in hospital after doing that under extreme close supervision. But in the film we see we don't see her as being that bad.

Without the backstory about Joon being capable of setting the place on fire, I probably would've seen her as just an uber-creative, original, eccentric misfit and wondered why Benny was so concerned. But the fire thing made the situation more threatening. Plus I saw malevolence in Joon, the way she handled fire - like she knew precisely the effect it would have on Benny every time she lit a candle. That made her seem less innocent to me, and also less unaware of her behavior. I got the impression she was very conscious of proving a point with fire.

Like I said before, I thought it was a stretch to have Benny suddenly change his position and support the idea of Joon living on her own. The same goes for the therapist, who made a rather startling change in her professional opinion too. But such is the stuff of fantasy-fairytales!

However, if Joon had burned down the house, it would have been a whole different story altogether, IMO. I don't think even Sam would've stuck around then; all bets for living a 'normal' life with her would be off. In the ashes of a house fire, I can't imagine seeing the final scene, with Joon handling that hot iron, and thinking 'how sweet'!

Thanks for your reply, GG. I think you're right, that for most families who have a member dealing with a medical challenge, whether it's a mental illness or a physical one, the other family members/significant others "keep an eye on them" pretty much forever, and that helps the Joons of this world (and the Sams) live independently. I'm sure that the fact that the apartment Joon moves into is "in Ruthie's building" helps convince Benny to let Joon move there. Ruthie is rapidly becoming another member of the family, and she's a sweet, competent adult, someone else for Joon and Sam to turn to if there's a problem.

But I think your comment that "we don't really know what exactly is wrong with her" is a key point. There is never an official diagnosis given in the movie--I've seen some reviewers write that Joon has schizophrenia, but I did some investigation of the symptoms and I'm not sure that diagnosis fits. Joon's "mental illness" reminds me of the mysterious and vague "fatal illness" that writers would give heroines in 1930s romantic movies, where the woman would look gorgeous and exhibit very few symptoms until right before she was going to die. In "real life," no illness worked that way--maybe a sudden heart attack or fatal stroke, but in that case the victim gets no warning, and part of the story is always that the woman knows she is dying but doesn't want to tell anyone around her. You just had to accept the implausibility. Joon's mental illness, with its convenient lack of clarity, seems like a page out of that plot book. The vagueness may be part of the fairy-tale element of BENNY & JOON, but it can also be seen as a structural weakness.

Thanks for sharing your ideas--



Part-Time Poet

**Did you find any aspects of the handling of Joon's mental illness either troubling or unconvincing? I thought they handled it well. I have a relative that is schizophrenic and a friend who is bipolar. I have no real medical knowledge of either but both do live somewhat normal lives. The one with schizophrenia has been in and out of mental homes but she was married and had two children even though she was diagnosed as a teenager. She takes medication but still has ups and downs. The one with bipolar takes meds and it would be hard to notice she has any problem.

**Does it seem somewhat irresponsible for the filmmakers to suggest that Joon and Sam can live happily and safely together in an apartment at the end of the film? After all, Sam wasn’t able to help Joon when she started to freak out on the bus. Isn’t it a bit of a naïve oversimplification to suggest that if Joon is happy, she won’t hear voices, or that the love of a good man like Sam will assure that Joon will never again have the urge to set the house on fire?
I think there is an attempt to have them live as normal as possible. Remember the lady handling Joons case wanted her to live in a group home. I think her approval to release Joon was knowing Benny was considered her caretaker and he would still have that job even though he decided he could trust Sam with her.


**Do you think Sam is now up to the task of safeguarding Joon? Why?
I think Sam has stepped up knowing what can happen but that does not mean he would never need assistance.

**Even if you think the ending is implausible, can you suspend your disbelief and enjoy it anyway, in a fairy-tale way? (Fairy tales don’t have to be logical.) Would you have preferred to see the movie end with Sam and Joon embracing outside the hospital? I thought the ending was great. They left it open as to who all would be around to help care for her. She has several people close by.


**In the original version of the screenplay, Joon burned the house down before she ran away with Sam. I think we can all agree that the revision was a wise idea! Would your feelings about the film’s happy ending alter if Joon had actually burned down the Pearl home? I really don't think it would have changed anything. They certainly make it clear that she was capable of just that. This is why she needs a support group around. Benny is just lucky to have added Sam so he can try to have some life of this own.

I have a few thoughts. I love this movie. If it's a fairy tale, I'm all for escapism. The movie is a very romanticized version of an unspecified illness. I have no problem suspending my sense of disbelief. I deal with my realities every day and have no interest in explosions, battles and mayhem. Maybe too much imagination is a problem.

I've had a wee bit of experience with relatives on medication to control, um, mental problems. Without being specific, the medications are resented by the one who needs the the medicine and not taking the medications is a goal. That fits in with Joon's emotional swings. Medicine won't help if it's still in the container. So, not all of it is fantasy or fairy tale to me.

So, I just enjoy the movie. Reality will wait for me.

**Did you find any aspects of the handling of Joon’s mental illness either troubling or unconvincing?

The only part that really stands out to me is the scene where she is directing traffic. The behavior she exudes in the rest of the movie is more mental; all on the inside. That was more of an outward, acting out. It wasn't consistent. I hope I'm explaining this clearly. Every other time she acts outwardly, it's in anger; that time was not.

**Does it seem somewhat irresponsible for the filmmakers to suggest that Joon and Sam can live happily and safely together in an apartment at the end of the film? After all, Sam wasn’t able to help Joon when she started to freak out on the bus. Isn’t it a bit of a naïve oversimplification to suggest that if Joon is happy, she won’t hear voices, or that the love of a good man like Sam will assure that Joon will never again have the urge to set the house on fire?

I actually worried about them. I don't think Sam is qualified to take care of her; but he could be. He isn't stupid. He could learn how to help her and if emergency numbers were readily available, then they could live together alone. I assume Joon kept up with therapy; which would also help.

**Do you think Sam is now up to the task of safeguarding Joon? Why?

See above....

**Even if you think the ending is implausible, can you suspend your disbelief and enjoy it anyway, in a fairy-tale way? (Fairy tales don’t have to be logical.) Would you have preferred to see the movie end with Sam and Joon embracing outside the hospital?

It's not a bad ending. Yes, I can suspend belief for the "Happily Ever After". If it would have ended at the hospital, I would have wondered what happened next. Maybe an alternative ending to both? Like still living with Benny but add a small apartment on to the house so they have privacy?

**In the original version of the screenplay, Joon burned the house down before she ran away with Sam. I think we can all agree that the revision was a wise idea! Would your feelings about the film’s happy ending alter if Joon had actually burned down the Pearl home?

Oh yeah. There's no way Joon could be trusted to live on her own or even in a group home if she's burning down houses. She'd be hospitalized and they would test meds on her and depression would set in and Sam would be sad.....my oh my that would have been bad!

**Did you find any aspects of the handling of Joon’s mental illness either troubling or unconvincing?

No. I thought MSM handled the character brilliantly. Most doctors will tell you schizoprenia (with paranoia) - which I believe Joon to be suffering from...can vary enormously from patient to patient. In some ways she is savant..like a genius. She struck exactly the right cord to me of someone from mild schizoprenia (w/paranoia). Even at her high functioning level, it is easy to see that she needs some assistance with daily activities.

**Does it seem somewhat irresponsible for the filmmakers to suggest that Joon and Sam can live happily and safely together in an apartment at the end of the film? After all, Sam wasn’t able to help Joon when she started to freak out on the bus. Isn’t it a bit of a naïve oversimplification to suggest that if Joon is happy, she won’t hear voices, or that the love of a good man like Sam will assure that Joon will never again have the urge to set the house on fire?

I think Sam did not know about the medications or perhaps Joon misled him about when they had to be taken. Actually in a crisis like that he acted very responsibly. I loved it that you see him get into the ambulance with Joon. He is not afraid of her. He is prepared to stick it out, and learn what he needs to know to be with her.

All we know really about Sam is he is not educated /cant read. I don't see anything in his character that would suggest he would not be a good caregiver to Joon...which includes making sure she takes her meds.

**Do you think Sam is now up to the task of safeguarding Joon? Why?

Yes. Expecially with a good support system, ie. living in Ruthie's building. Sam seems responsible.

**Even if you think the ending is implausible, can you suspend your disbelief and enjoy it anyway, in a fairy-tale way? (Fairy tales don’t have to be logical.) Would you have preferred to see the movie end with Sam and Joon embracing outside the hospital?

I was fine with the ending. It seemed the natural solution to a difficult problem. Sam and Joon will probably survive quite well. Remember too, that Benny is more certainly attrated to Ruthie because their living together in the apartment will allow Benny to maintain some sense of control over Joon. The movie hints that some of Joon's problems are that she feels stifled by Benny, which I think has happened.


**In the original version of the screenplay, Joon burned the house down before she ran away with Sam. I think we can all agree that the revision was a wise idea! Would your feelings about the film’s happy ending alter if Joon had actually burned down the Pearl home?

Completely different movie...with that ending comes a tragedy. Interesting idea...but as I say, it would end up a completely different movie.

**Do you think Sam is now up to the task of safeguarding Joon? Why?

I don't know much about mental illness and my poinion itself could be a "fariy-tale," or I totally miss answering the quesion ( I hope not) but I think he is.

Now Benny looks he is trying to respect Joon's will, then in this way, Sam's existance itself can be a safeguard to her.

I thought it in this way because to me, it seems that all the Joon's problems are "not to be understood." I mean, she has her own life and world, though it is a little bit different from the others.
But because it is a bit off from our "common sense," she is regarded as "not normal."
Even Benny, who loves Joon very much, tried to help her but not to understand her.
So, what she needed is not to be measured by the general standards but somebody who can fully join, fully posess the same world of hers.

In this way, Sam is perfect. They can share not only the apartment but can live together spiritually, aesthetically and culturally very well.
And with having Benny's understanding, I think her PTSD will be healed a little by little.

I know it is just my wishfull thinking and you can call me a dreamer!!!!
Or, it this was totally off the point, please brush this off.

**Did you find any aspects of the handling of Joon’s mental illness either troubling or unconvincing?

**Does it seem somewhat irresponsible for the filmmakers to suggest that Joon and Sam can live happily and safely together in an apartment at the end of the film?

I am going to answer both of these together since my thoughts will wander from one to the other anyway. With a medical background (although not in psych) and with a family member that struggles with bipolar disorder, was it completely medically accurate? Some aspects were on target. Such as Joon's capacity to 'explode' over a minor situation (ping-pong) or to have an episode triggered by stress. Would everything that happened here happen within a 4 or 5 day span of time? Most likely not. We aren't really given enough information to know the specifics of her case, diagnosis, medication history, etc. Do we need to know that to enjoy the movie? No, I don't think so. The outcome of Joon living on her own with Sam would probably be iffy in real life. After such a short time with relatively little opportunity for all of them to prepare for life on their own, this is not very realistic; although Sam does seem to have the capacity to learn how to care for Joon. So, if the creators/directors/producers were aiming to present a film seriously dealing with the reality of mental illness, it would need some work. As a sweet story about the relationships of 3 flawed people, it works quite nicely. Which makes me also include this question....

**Even if you think the ending is implausible, can you suspend your disbelief and enjoy it anyway, in a fairy-tale way?

Absolutely. I am a fan of happily ever after and don't generally have any problem overlooking strict adherence to fact to get there. I'm glad that we get to see the outcome of Benny and Joon in their own apartment, supervised by Benny and Ruthie, happily making grilled cheese sandwiches and finger painting.

**Would your feelings about the film’s happy ending alter if Joon had actually burned down the Pearl home?
Yes, I think that would have moved the emotional aspect into a deeper and more serious arena. Much harder to have a happy ending in that case. As I remember on my first viewing of the film when Joon lights the picture on fire, I expected that the house was due to go, and was pleased that it did not take that turn.

As someone who worked on an acute psych unit for years, I have a somewhat skewed view of the proposition of Sam and Joon living happily ever after. It is my strong belief that it would not work out.

So many times I have seen patients pair up, or patients who find someone in the world who WANTS to be with them, only to have the patient ultimately screw it up. They become paranoid, stop taking their meds, squander the partner's money, or worse, become physically abusive.

The saddest part of paranoid schizophrenia is that schizophrenics are totally self absorbed. They cannot empathize with others, or feel love like we do. It is a devastating disease that strips them of the ability to care for someone or something other than themselves.

I am describing the overwhelming majority of true paranoid schizophrenics, as always, there are exceptions.

OK, Psy 101 is over.

By the way, I adore Benny and Joon and have watched it dozens of times. I too, love fairy tales!

**Did you find any aspects of the handling of Joon’s mental illness either troubling or unconvincing?

No. I felt that they gave Joon's illness just enough attention to get the point across, and not make it a movie about someone with a disorder trying to live their life. It was really about two quirky people falling in love in my opinion. I too have a family member with bipolar and I seem to feel that is what Joon has, rather than schizophrenia.. She has ups and downs, like a bipolar person would who either a)didn't take their meds regularly or b)are on meds that are not adjusted properly. I have seen both of these situations myself. Her moods can be "set off" by something simple and I think MS Masterson did this quite effectively. Many bipolar people are extremely high functioning and very smart, but need help with daily tasks.
**Does it seem somewhat irresponsible for the filmmakers to suggest that Joon and Sam can live happily and safely together in an apartment at the end of the film? After all, Sam wasn’t able to help Joon when she started to freak out on the bus. Isn’t it a bit of a naïve oversimplification to suggest that if Joon is happy, she won’t hear voices, or that the love of a good man like Sam will assure that Joon will never again have the urge to set the house on fire ?
No, I don't feel it is irresponsible, I mentioned that Sam on the bus was my favorite scene that showcased Johnny's acting. I think Sam takes the very best care of Joon that he possibly could, given the limited information that he has. He actually acted quite intelligently, with someone bipolar like that, you do not want to argue with them, or really try to restrain them, unless you know what you are doing. They can get destructive and abusive and Sam was just being supportive, loving and helpful. I cried watching this.

**Do you think Sam is now up to the task of safeguarding Joon? Why?
Ok I do not think Sam is slow, I think he has a quirky personality and that perhaps he was never given support while being educated. (A teacher cannot work a miracle if the parents don't encourage children to do homework or read books with them at home. It seems Sam cannot write and read well.)
Yes because of what I said about how he handled the bus right. I do think he could be an excellent caregiver with just a little more information, instructions about giving meds and some support (but not necessarily alot).

**Even if you think the ending is implausible, can you suspend your disbelief and enjoy it anyway, in a fairy-tale way? (Fairy tales don’t have to be logical.) Would you have preferred to see the movie end with Sam and Joon embracing outside the hospital?

No I would not change the ending, I like it very much. I think the film gave us just enough information to make us feel very calm and happy that this was the best solution for everyone... Seems to me that Sam and Ruthie became good friends and I suppose Sam probably talked to her and asked permission to reside with Joon at the apartment. This was comforting to Benny to know he still had alot of control over the situation. I believe that together, the three of them (Benny, Sam, and Ruthie) could each have loving, and fulfilling relationships while taking the best care of Joon!

**In the original version of the screenplay, Joon burned the house down before she ran away with Sam. I think we can all agree that the revision was a wise idea! Would your feelings about the film’s happy ending alter if Joon had actually burned down the Pearl home?
That would be tragic, Benny and Joon would be out all of their belongings, she would be considered more dangerous, and maybe not allowed to live at home. I would have hated this.

That's true--I felt the same way, in the fire scene after Benny finds out about Joon and Sam. It was pretty clear that Joon was enraged at Benny and wanted to punish him or get back at him, and she was using fire as the tool to do it. That didn't read as an uncontrollable compulsion so much as it read as calculated fury and rage, which again muddied the question of her diagnosis. You got the feeling she was choosing her actions, not that she couldn't help doing them. That seemed different to me than her breakdown on the bus with Sam, when she did not seem able to control what was happening to her at all.



Yup. You can't quarrel with the logic in a fairy tale.



:fear: Eeek! That does put a whole new spin on it, doesn't it?

I'm very grateful they removed the "burning down the house" scene; it would have made the ending very dark, no matter how they handled things afterwards. As it is now, we can choose to be optimistic about the future--Joon will be happier, Sam will have a home, Ruthie will join the "watching out for Joon" team, there will be fewer stresses, and life will be better for everyone.

Thanks for sharing your ideas!



Part-Time Poet

I think this is the danger behind the fairy tale ending.

I LIKE happy endings. I really loved the ending of B&J, it was sweet...we all got what we wanted. We didn't want to see Joon forcibly hospitalized. We wanted to see Joon and Sam allowed to be together. We wanted Benny to be relieved of some of the pressure of caregiver to Joon. We wanted Benny and Ruthie to get together...all of those things seemed to come to pass (or at least the possibility of them coming to pass).

Happily ever after, right????

But it's dangerous to really THINK about the "ever after."

Joon has a mental illness. Just because she's been released from the hospital and is now living with Sam and smooshing cheese sandwiches with an iron, does not mean that there won't be problems ahead.

I think that Sam proved he loved Joon and wanted to take care of her. However, was taking her away from Benny the best thing for JOON? It kind of backfired on him. Probably not the wisest of choices for Sam, but understandable...really. However, living with a person with a mental condition is like being on a roller coaster, and Sam would have to be careful to make sure things were kept at an even keel...and he would need the help of his landlady and Benny...he couldn't do it alone. Few people can.

We see the ending of fairy tales all bathed in some rosy glow, but what happens after the prince rides off with the servant girl in the glass slipper may not be so rosy (anyone see Sondheim's "Into the Woods?" LOL)

But I'm a sucker for happy endings, and am content to leave Sam and Joon making sandwiches and Benny and Ruthie sitting on the porch having a beer...like I keep saying. Reality is way overrated...

Ha! How right you are, jansysparrow ~ there's no downer quite like Reality!
Your comment about Sam needing to keep Joon on an even keel struck me... I have two thoughts on that ~ one is that Sam isn't exactly on a 'even keel' himself, so how would/could he suddenly become so? Second is that perhaps the definition of 'even keel' would change with regard to both Sam and Joon and they'd come up with their own sense of balance, one that would be a bit broader than the outside world's. I thought Benny did a remarkable job of giving Joon her 'space', but I'm thinking said space would definitely be expanded with Sam at the helm, so to speak. For example, I noticed how Joon had left her mark throughout the house she and Benny shared...on the banisters and kitchen cabinets, etc., and I couldn't help wondering how long those nice, clean white walls of Sam & Joon's new apartment would stay that way! Me thinks dear Ruthie-the-landlady is going to have some of her own boundaries pushed with her new tenants!