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 Post subject: SLEEPY HOLLOW Question #7--One and Only Masbath
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:56 pm 
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SLEEPY HOLLOW Question #7--One and Only Masbath

Ichabod Crane gains one steadfast friend and ally during the course of his investigation of the murders in Sleepy Hollow: young Masbath, the boy whose father was killed by the horseman early in the film.

The Masbath character is the screenwriters' invention; there is nothing like this in the original Washington Irving folk tale. So . . . some questions to ponder:


How would SLEEPY HOLLOW change if the writers had not included the character of young Masbath? What does his relationship with Ichabod bring to the movie?


When young Masbath offers to become Ichabod's servant or apprentice ("I am your man, sir"), at first Ichabod says no. Why does Ichabod change his mind?


Silly question--does young Masbath have a first name? Would you like to suggest one?


As always, you may respond to any or all of these questions. Thanks for joining the discussion!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:20 pm 
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Yes! Another discussion!! :bounce: :bounce:


Well, I haven't read the original story, but everytime when I watch the movie, Young Masbeth seems important to me somehow.

I think he's a quite interesting character.

Concerning the relationship between him and Ichabod and what it brings to the movie:

I think yound masbeth is insofar important, as he is/ provides that:

1. the only man who would accompany Ichabod into the Western Woods (except for Katrina, but she is a Woman :lol:)

2. Ichabod is able to hide behind something....erm..rather someone (:lol:) when visisting Lady Van Tassels sister in her cave.

3. the one, who finds his father's bag at notary Harvenbrook or whatever the man is called...


Concerning Ichabods changing his mind on the question of Young Masbeth:

:lol:

The burgomaster tells Ichabod a secret: 5 victims to 4 graves.
Hereupon, Ichabod catches that the graves need to be opened.
And we all know that he isn't all too keen on doing that himself and 'being forced' to watch the corpses when nobody's around.
:biglaugh:


Concerning Yound Masbeth's name:

Well, part-time poet, stupid questions don't exist.
But stupid answers do. :lol:

Erm..I emanate from the fact, that he possesses a fist name.
I like to think that, at least. :biglaugh:

I'd probably call him Bert Masbeth.

:cool: :lol:

Well, I think I answered all the questions.

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Charli



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:49 pm 
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Larry. Larry Masbeth. :disco:
Since children often possess a wisdom and fearlessness lacking in adults, Larry's role is a nice counterpoint to Ichabod. He is often willing to go where Ichy fears to tread, and is willingly used as a guide, shield, companion and co-investigator. What has he got to lose, afterall? His only remaining family member got beheaded by the terrible HH. Larry's probably as keen to solve the crime as Ichabod is...maybe moreso, as he tends to keep Ichabod focused and moving forward toward that end. Maybe he sees a bit of his Dad in Ichy, or some hidden worth that the townfolk (including Ichy himself) don't see? I'm glad he's in the movie - I can't imagine Ichabod going it alone with only Katrina by his side.



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:57 pm 
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I would name him Young Barnabus Masbeth.

I agree with Moonlight, Ichabod needed some more people to dig up graves for him. :lol:

But really - I think when he heard the secret conspiracy 5 bodies to 4 graves, he realized just how deep this case really goes. Perhaps he figured he needed an assistant...who throughout the course of the movie provides no real assistance besides being something to hide behind, and moving beds to stun spiders. But aye, Parlez has got it. He does add a bit of contrast between the characters, I think it worked really well!

:-D



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:05 pm 
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Hamilton Maspeth... Wanted somthing that sounded 1700s, not something of today! LOL!!

I think young Maspeth is very important to the film - he gives Ichabod someone to bounce thought off of. No "Hamilton" and Ichabod is a pretty silent character, unless he is prone to talking to himself.

I may be creating a huge backstory here, but when Ichabod first says no and then starts to walk away, he sees Maspeth by himself and very alone. I think Ichabod puts himself into the boys shoes, sees himself, as it were, and recalls how lonely his own childhood was. In that flash of remembering, he changes his mind.

I actually think that is one of my favorite scenes, because we see Ichabod actually change his habits & start to grow as a person.

(see, I told you I was creating my own backstory!!)



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:33 pm 
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The faithful companion, as Linda says someone to bounce off to be the sidekick, every Detective needs one and in a way Masbeth provides this important task. Of course Ichabod also uses him to cower behind :lol:

I think Ichabod changes his mind about taking him on when he reaslies things may not be all they seem and he needs an assistant.

As to a name might come back to that. I think William is a good name for him!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:48 pm 
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How would SLEEPY HOLLOW change if the writers had not included the character of young Masbath? What does his relationship with Ichabod bring to the movie?

I can't imagine this movie without Masbeth. He is Ichabod's sidekick or assistant. No matter how hard I try I just can't see this movie without him. Not sure if this really answers the questions, but it's all that makes sense to me at the moment.

When young Masbath offers to become Ichabod's servant or apprentice ("I am your man, sir"), at first Ichabod says no. Why does Ichabod change his mind?

I think also that Ichabod realizes he'll need an assistant. I don't know if he feels bad for Masbeth or at least bad enough to take responsibility for him. If he did, he wouldn't have left Masbeth behind the first time he went to leave Sleepy Hollow.

Silly question--does young Masbath have a first name? Would you like to suggest one?

Of course he has a first name. Arthur. Art Masbeth. Named after his grandfather. Goes by Art for short so they know who is being addressed at family gatherings. :rolleyes:



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:17 pm 
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Have to agree with most posters that young Masbeth plays a very important role in the movie.

At first, I think Ichabod sees that he needs an assistant for practical purposes - to help him dig up those graves after he gets the magistrate's information.

Later, Masbeth becomes more of a "sidekick" - someone who can offer Ichabod a traveling companion, another point of view, a little bravery when needed - and it appears Ichabod genuinely becomes attached to Masbeth. He even takes Masbeth with him back to NYC.

Masbeth's real first name was likely Jonathan, as people in those times often named their sons after the father. However, I would like to offer another name for young Masbeth - William - a "good, strong name" - and one in keeping with the period.



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:32 pm 
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How would SLEEPY HOLLOW change if the writers had not included the character of young Masbath? What does his relationship with Ichabod bring to the movie?

To me he protects Ichabod, he wants to help Ichabod. He is like a sidekick, assistant, or even helper. :cool:

When young Masbath offers to become Ichabod's servant or apprentice ("I am your man, sir"), at first Ichabod says no. Why does Ichabod change his mind?

I think Ichabod at first thinks he can do it, get the job done, and leave. To me he changes his mind, because he realizes he is going to need help, and he finds out it's awfully scary to be alone in Sleepy Hollow.

Silly question--does young Masbath have a first name? Would you like to suggest one?

I couldn't imagine Masbeth with a first name, I don't know hwy I just don't. To me I think a good name would've been John - Masbeth!



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:40 pm 
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I'm glad that the character of Young Masbeth was added to the screenplay of Sleepy Hollow. I like his character, and I enjoy all of his scenes in the film with Ichabod. They make a nice team.

Without Young Masbeth, Icahbod wouldn't have had anyone to interact with during most of the "crime-solving" scenes, so I think his character is an important addition to the story. And having Young Masbeth around added humor to certain moments of the movie: like Ichabod using him as a shield and Ichabod looking irritated when Young Masbeth interrupted his intimate moment with Katrina in the woods. :lol:

Ichabod most likely changed his mind about having Young Masbeth as an assistant because he realized that it would be helpful to have another person around to recognize clues...and perhaps since he's a bit squeamish around certain things, maybe he would feel more comfortable having someone else nearby instead of being alone. Ichabod also probably feels sorry for Young Masbeth since he just lost his father and can relate to him because he lost his mother when he was young too.

As for Young Masbeth's first name...I'll go with Rupert.



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:06 pm 
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I pretty much agree with all that's already been said, and I always assumed his first name was Jonathon

I also think Ichabod took Masbath on because he could see that the kid would be less likely to question and challenge Ichabod's methods of investigation than any other helpers he might've found. :-|


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:26 pm 

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I see young Masbeth in much the same way as the boy in OUATIM. They both assist Johnny's character, and help him to do things the character can't do...like looking for spiders, or "seeing" the bad guy...LOL! Also, Masbeth is a very adult little boy, as contrasted with Ichy being a very boyish adult. A study in contrasts. And, yes, I believe Masbeth is absolutely essential to the story, as TB sets it out, for the reasons so well set out by previous posters.

I'd call him Horatio Masbeth. :bounce:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:44 pm 
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Jonathon Masbeth, his fathers namesake, was one of Ichabods first opportunities to step up to the plate. He may have first refused his request to take on the boy out of his own insecurities and then made a decision to take his first big step forward in solving the case and felt he might need assistance. He felt that the boy had an interest in the investigation that caused his father to be murdered.

He may well have been a screenwriters invention so that Icahbod would have an ear to discuss the case instead of thinking out loud. He does seem a prop for adding humor to Ichabods performance and along with Katrina someone to protect from the horseman. Ichabod taking responsibility for the boy adds to his characters likeability.



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:05 am 
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I like the idea that Ichabod sees a little of his own loneliness in Masbeth and decides to make him useful instead of lonely. He will teach him the methods that have kept him sane in times of loneliness. I assumed he was Jonathan Masbeth as well; that's why he was called young Masbeth before in my brain anyway.

I agree that taking Masbeth in made Ichabod more likeable and allowed him to serve as a Watson if you will. He also challenges Ichabod's deductions when he believes that Katrina did it all, giving Ichabod something to chew on in his carriage ride.



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:13 am 
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I forgot the father was called Jonathan Masbeth, your logic is probably right he was also Jonathan. Although does anyone but Ichabod call him Young Masbeth.


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