Black Mass Question #11: Second Most Wanted Man?

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Black Mass Question #11: Second Most Wanted Man?

Unread postby fireflydances » Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:44 pm

What do you think about the fact that Whitey was the most wanted man next to Osama Bin Laden? Did you realize that at the time? Would you put him up there with the likes of Osama?
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Re: Black Mass Question #11: Second Most Wanted Man?

Unread postby RamblinRebel » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:48 am

No, I didn’t realize that. And no, I wouldn’t put him up there with the likes of Osama Bin Laden. No way! Not even close! Whitey was responsible for what, between 10 and 20 deaths? Bin Laden, thousands of innocent people. Not to mention Bin Laden’s influence was so far reaching, and for so long.

So if the gap between them was that big, were there really no criminals worthy of being in between the two? Then again, how often do we put a foreign enemy on the list?

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Re: Black Mass Question #11: Second Most Wanted Man?

Unread postby nebraska » Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:18 pm

Bin Laden and Bulger seem like apples and oranges to me. The search for an international terrorist versus the search for a local mob figure ... no comparison. Bin Laden was a unique case for the FBI list because he was a threat to our country and he could have been absolutely anywhere at that time, and so he probably made multiple lists just to cover every possible base. Whitey, on the other had, had shamed and polluted the FBI. They no doubt wanted him captured in the worst way! It was personal for them. There might have also been a fear that even while in hiding Whitey was continuing to manage the drug trade and other crimes.

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Re: Black Mass Question #11: Second Most Wanted Man?

Unread postby fireflydances » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:21 pm

I agree! To consider Whitey Bulger as belonging on the Most Wanted list seems odd, given how small his area of operations actually was. And I agree that getting him on the list had more to do with the FBI determined to pull him down. He embarrassed them publicly -- shaming them for the way their front line guys crumbled in the face of temptation. Doesn't say much for their entire system of operations.

Obviously the Most Wanted list is a publicity tool to bend or coax public opinion.
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Re: Black Mass Question #11: Second Most Wanted Man?

Unread postby nebraska » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:26 pm

White was a dangerous man. I didn't mean to imply the FBI should not have put him on the most wanted list, but putting him alongside Bin Laden might have been (excuse the pun) over kill. On the other hand, both men were capable of murder and nobody knew where they were or who might get in the way and be a victim. But Whitey was definitely a thorn in the side of the organization!

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Re: Black Mass Question #11: Second Most Wanted Man?

Unread postby Liz » Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:05 pm

A thorn in the side, for sure. BUT why were they not following up on tips? I’m not sure they really wanted to find him.

I wonder if the “number 2” came from the media’s overblown version when he was captured (or from Whitey’s mouth because he was full of himself). If you go to the Most Wanted website it’s not clear that there is a pecking order.


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Re: Black Mass Question #11: Second Most Wanted Man?

Unread postby nebraska » Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:35 pm

Liz wrote:A thorn in the side, for sure. BUT why were they not following up on tips? I’m not sure they really wanted to find him.

I wonder if the “number 2” came from the media’s overblown version when he was captured (or from Whitey’s mouth because he was full of himself). If you go to the Most Wanted website it’s not clear that there is a pecking order.




The list might look different in another format (I should go look at the post office, the most wanted is posted in the lobby) or things might have changed since Whitey went missing. The website is probably more widely available and used now than it was twenty years ago.

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Re: Black Mass Question #11: Second Most Wanted Man?

Unread postby nebraska » Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:22 pm

Liz wrote:A thorn in the side, for sure. BUT why were they not following up on tips? I’m not sure they really wanted to find him.


I believe over the years the FBI received literally thousands of tips. Sifting through them, deciding which ones should be followed and which ones were not worth looking at, had to be a big job all its own. With 20/20 hindsight it is easy to say "oh, yes, that was the one they should have followed up on because it was right! Why didn't they?" but it is hard for us to know how many tips they investigated that lead to dead ends.

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Re: Black Mass Question #11: Second Most Wanted Man?

Unread postby fireflydances » Mon Oct 13, 2014 10:49 pm

This seemed interesting. From Wikipedia.

"Individuals are generally only removed from the list if the fugitive is captured, dies, or if the charges against them are dropped; they are then replaced by a new entry selected by the FBI. In six cases, the FBI removed individuals from the list after deciding that they were no longer a "particularly dangerous menace to society". Machetero member Víctor Manuel Gerena, added to the list in 1984, has been on the list longer than anyone, at 30 years. Billie Austin Bryant spent the shortest amount of time on the list, being listed for two hours in 1969. Eric Matthew Frein is the person most recently listed still at large. The oldest person to be added to the list was William Bradford Bishop on April 10, 2014 at 77 years old. On rare occasions, the FBI will add a "Number Eleven" if that individual is extremely dangerous but the Bureau does not feel any of the current ten should be removed."

Here's one guy currently on the Most Wanted list.
"Semion Mogilevich (Ukrainian: Семен Ю́дкович Могиле́вич) is wanted for his alleged participation in a multi-million dollar scheme to defraud thousands of investors in the stock of a public company incorporated in Canada, but headquartered in Newtown, Pennsylvania, between 1993 and 1998. The scheme to defraud collapsed in 1998, after thousands of investors lost in excess of $150 million, and Mogilevich, thought to have allegedly funded and authorized the scheme, was indicted in April 2003.[28] In spite of Mogilevich's activities and the warrants issued against him, according to the FBI he is openly living in Moscow."

Here's another guy, Eduardo Ravelo who "is wanted for his alleged involvement in racketeering activities, conspiracy to launder monetary instruments, and conspiracy to possess heroin, cocaine and marijuana with the intent to distribute. His alleged criminal activities began in 2003.[26] Ravelo is believed to be hiding with his wife and children in Ciudad Juárez, Mexico."

At the same time the list includes two guys who murdered their family, another fellow who killed a five year old, and the guy who killed a Pennsylvania State Trooper last week.

I get the feeling that the Most Wanted list is not about who is the worst but rather who law enforcement urgently wishes to arrest or otherwise eliminate. Maybe it's the crime + the notoriety + public pressure. Just a thought.
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Re: Black Mass Question #11: Second Most Wanted Man?

Unread postby Liz » Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:00 am

nebraska wrote:
Liz wrote:A thorn in the side, for sure. BUT why were they not following up on tips? I’m not sure they really wanted to find him.

I wonder if the “number 2” came from the media’s overblown version when he was captured (or from Whitey’s mouth because he was full of himself). If you go to the Most Wanted website it’s not clear that there is a pecking order.




The list might look different in another format (I should go look at the post office, the most wanted is posted in the lobby) or things might have changed since Whitey went missing. The website is probably more widely available and used now than it was twenty years ago.

I'd have to look again, but I think I saw the list from 2011, and the format didn't look much different. Please let us know what you see in the Post Office.
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Re: Black Mass Question #11: Second Most Wanted Man?

Unread postby Liz » Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:04 am

fireflydances wrote:I get the feeling that the Most Wanted list is not about who is the worst but rather who law enforcement urgently wishes to arrest or otherwise eliminate. Maybe it's the crime + the notoriety + public pressure. Just a thought.

My question is not so much about the total list but about the pecking order within the list.
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Re: Black Mass Question #11: Second Most Wanted Man?

Unread postby RamblinRebel » Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:07 am

I always thought the 10 most wanted were ordered 1 to 10, but I guess maybe they aren't ranked after all! Check out the FBI's "Most Wanted" FAQ:

Are members of the “Ten Most Wanted Fugitives” list ranked?

No.


:perplexed: I wonder if they used to be ranked...???


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