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The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum Question #21 - The devil and the madonna

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 2:37 am
by Liz
Referring back to Tidbit #2 and this video of the director & screenwriter of the movie

[youtube]VK692Bw1A38[/youtube]

Margarethe Von Trotta labels the story as the dual between good and evil and talks of the journalist becoming the devil and Katharina becoming a Madonna. She also says that it is an old idea of the innocence being a woman and the devil must be a man.

What do you think about this idea? Is there any truth to it?

Re: The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum Question #21 - The devil and the madonna

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:36 pm
by nebraska
My own view is that she is expressing her personal opinion of how the movie played out. Yes, the Totges character was very nasty and the Katharina character had an innocent expression for most of the film, but I didn't get a devil/madonna impression from the movie, although I suppose you could stretch it to fit any good character/bad character story.

I think it is more likely that good and evil are depicted by physical appearance rather than by gender. For example in the recent Lone Ranger movie, the evil Butch Cavendish was without redeeming qualities and he was very ugly, while John Reid who was pure of heart was extremely handsome. Heroines are generally beautiful women unless they have some sort of condition or deformity that is part of the story line.

Re: The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum Question #21 - The devil and the madonna

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:09 pm
by Buster
I guess she hasn't seen Ninth Gate

Re: The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum Question #21 - The devil and the madonna

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:21 pm
by nebraska
Buster wrote:I guess she hasn't seen Ninth Gate

Great observation!

Re: The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum Question #21 - The devil and the madonna

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:52 pm
by fireflydances
I guess I would add that Boll had a religious sensibility that he carried with him his entire life. His parents, particularly his mother, were very strong advocates of the Catholic tradition of social justice, which was teaching about the rights of the working class back in 1891. So I think Boll looked at the world as very black and white, good and bad. There were things that shouldn't be permitted in the community of man and there was also the responsibility of each man for the well being of those around him. Rights and wrongs if you will. Clearly the journalist was on the wrong side -- his acts destroyed another human being, if not physically, very much socially and psychologically.

Perhaps this screenwriter has come at the story from that religious perspective. I do see the novel as a sort of morality play. And I for one don't see enough "meat" on the bones of any of these characters to regard them as fully drawn humans. They are stand-ins, actors that act out what is wrong with a society that permits violence in order to accomplish its ends.

Re: The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum Question #21 - The devil and the madonna

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:01 am
by Liz
Buster wrote:I guess she hasn't seen Ninth Gate

Good one! :lol:

Re: The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum Question #21 - The devil and the madonna

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:06 am
by Liz
fireflydances wrote:

Perhaps this screenwriter has come at the story from that religious perspective. I do see the novel as a sort of morality play. And I for one don't see enough "meat" on the bones of any of these characters to regard them as fully drawn humans. They are stand-ins, actors that act out what is wrong with a society that permits violence in order to accomplish its ends.

I think she was coming at it from a man vs woman perspective. Men are evil women are good sort of thing.

Re: The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum Question #21 - The devil and the madonna

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:34 am
by stroch
An even older idea is that of woman being the ultimate temptress leading man to moral destruction. The pure Madonna image is a counter to the insatiable siren. Not sure that Katharina fits that mold.

Re: The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum Question #21 - The devil and the madonna

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:52 am
by RamblinRebel
stroch wrote:An even older idea is that of woman being the ultimate temptress leading man to moral destruction. The pure Madonna image is a counter to the insatiable siren. Not sure that Katharina fits that mold.

Interesting that perhaps Boll (as the narrator) paints her as a Madonna figure, but the police and journalists paint her as the lustful siren.

Re: The Lost Honor of Katharina Blum Question #21 - The devil and the madonna

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:29 am
by Liz
RamblinRebel wrote:
stroch wrote:An even older idea is that of woman being the ultimate temptress leading man to moral destruction. The pure Madonna image is a counter to the insatiable siren. Not sure that Katharina fits that mold.

Interesting that perhaps Boll (as the narrator) paints her as a Madonna figure, but the police and journalists paint her as the lustful siren.

Yes, that makes sense.