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 Post subject: TPOF Question #11 ~ TPOF's Women
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:53 am 
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Comment on the role of women in “The Price of Freedom.” (Ayisha, Mother Queen, Esmeralda, Marie, etc.)



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 Post subject: Re: TPOF Question #11 ~ TPOF's Women
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:23 pm 
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I have been holding off, hoping somebody else would post an answer and help me out....... :dunce: I am not sure what Liz has in mind with this open-ended essay question.

All of these women were important to the story because they were active participants in life. Esmeralda had a non-traditional role being the lady pirate. Most of the lady pirates I have read about were not so shapely and beautiful. The Queen Mother and Ayisha were strong women who were also very smart and capable, although they were bound by a lot of rules and tradition in their home country. Royal position can be its own sort of prison. Marie seems at first glance not to be in the same league with the others, but in truth her husband depended heavily on her. They were partners and he could not have operated the business without her. The hand the rocks the cradle rules the world, or some such thought crosses my mind. She didn't just melt into the background, she was a vibrant individual although more traditional and with less flourish than the others. Marie may have been the most realistic of the women, the others lead more fantasy-like lives.


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 Post subject: Re: TPOF Question #11 ~ TPOF's Women
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:44 pm 
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Thanks for getting the discussion going here, nebraska. You have expanded on my main thought which was that the women are all strong, well drawn characters. No matter their position in life they are taking charge of their lives and acting as powerful leaders at a time when that was decidedly not the role of a womn. A pirate captain, a queen, the first grand vizier for her country who survives all she did, very strong and charismatic women. Even Marie, who probably had the lowest station in life compared to the others, stood up for herself and I was very glad to see her husband did as well by moving them away from Shipwreck Cove. I think we can tell this book was written by a woman, eh? :cool:



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 Post subject: Re: TPOF Question #11 ~ TPOF's Women
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:31 pm 
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nebraska wrote:
I have been holding off, hoping somebody else would post an answer and help me out....... :dunce: I am not sure what Liz has in mind with this open-ended essay question.

Well, Nebraska, you get an A on this essay question. :grin:

I agree with you that they were all strong women. They all had a lot of confidence, too. And they didn't seem to need men. They were ahead of their time. And yeah, DITHOT, it was obvious a woman wrote it. :bigwink: :cool:



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 Post subject: Re: TPOF Question #11 ~ TPOF's Women
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:49 pm 
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Yeah, I would say very much the same. These ladies were definitely the equals of males in the story. And I mean both in their personal strength but also as independent characters, worth knowing and following the fortunes of, nevermind what's happening to their other halves. Nothing simpering about these ladies. We are privy to their reflections, and what they think and do is as central to the plot as what the guys do. And I also liked that each stood alone and unique in her viewpoints, not rivals, but women coming at life from very different vantage points.



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 Post subject: Re: TPOF Question #11 ~ TPOF's Women
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:16 pm 
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Yes, I agree, I found the female characters appealing because they were strong women and could hold their own with the men.

I think if a male author had written this book, the women would have been less explored, particularly Ayisha. Ann handled many of her scenes with delicacy, suggesting her growing attraction to Jack and also her realization that her love with him had no future. A male writer would probably have made her more one-dimensional. The scene where she "unveils" infront of Jack for the first time and he says "you are one very pretty girl" was lovely - I could see it all in my mind. More than once when I was reading the book, I thought what a brilliant film it would have made! I found the characters and situations much more interesting than all the sagas in Pirates 3 & 4 to be honest!

It's interesting to speculate on the lives of real-life female pirates. Piracy is a desperate trade and even today, there don't seem to be reports of any female pirates among the groups currently operating off the coast of Somalia etc. It's hard to imagine how an eighteenth century woman could have captained a ship, and gained the respect of the men, given the climate of the times.



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 Post subject: Re: TPOF Question #11 ~ TPOF's Women
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:43 pm 
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Ah ha! Thought I missed one.... :lol:

Yes, what Nebraska said. :ok:

I loved that the women were strong, independent, capable and still able to love.
I much prefer these four women to the likes of the "Sex and the City" gang that passes for strong independent women today.


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 Post subject: Re: TPOF Question #11 ~ TPOF's Women
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:07 pm 
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I like what you're saying there, SnoopyDances. I too prefer these piraty females to the Sex And The City crowd (who basically are just obsessed with shopping and men). Esmeralda, particularly, seems very sure of who she is, and is very confident when dealing with Jack. :-)



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 Post subject: Re: TPOF Question #11 ~ TPOF's Women
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:37 pm 
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Jackslady wrote:
I like what you're saying there, SnoopyDances. I too prefer these piraty females to the Sex And The City crowd (who basically are just obsessed with shopping and men). Esmeralda, particularly, seems very sure of who she is, and is very confident when dealing with Jack. :-)

There's no contest. These are the types of women I want my daughter to aspire to be....even though one of them was a pirate. But we know that "Perhaps on the rare occasion pursuing the right course demands an act of piracy, piracy itself can be the right course?"



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 Post subject: Re: TPOF Question #11 ~ TPOF's Women
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:01 am 
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Coming into this discussion late so can't add much because I agree with all that has been said. Strong - independent - smart - knowing what is expected of them and able to stand up to their position in life. I raised 2 daughters and they have all of these qualities. Needless to say - mama is proud. Personally I can't relate at all to Sex in the City women!
And yes - easy to see this was written by a strong - smart woman!! :biggrin:


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 Post subject: Re: TPOF Question #11 ~ TPOF's Women
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:17 pm 
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Kudos to you, mama ladylinn! :highfive:



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 Post subject: Re: TPOF Question #11 ~ TPOF's Women
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:07 pm 
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ladylinn wrote:
Coming into this discussion late so can't add much because I agree with all that has been said. Strong - independent - smart - knowing what is expected of them and able to stand up to their position in life. I raised 2 daughters and they have all of these qualities. Needless to say - mama is proud. Personally I can't relate at all to Sex in the City women!
And yes - easy to see this was written by a strong - smart woman!! :biggrin:

Congrats to you, ladylinn, and way to go girls! :thumbsup:



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 Post subject: Re: TPOF Question #11 ~ TPOF's Women
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:06 am 
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I was going to skip this one but a bit of devil’s advocate never hurts. First I do agree that they were strong women and I agree with the low opinion some of you have for the Sex in the city girls. LOL

I was thinking that if not for Jack and his mellow crew, or Esmerelda’s first mate who seemed like a tough guy, there was a reason in the pirate films when they said a women on board was bad luck . The only real women pirates were protected by men and dressed as men to protect them from the rest of the crew. Even with someone like Calico Jack to protect them, Anne Bonney and Mary Reid dressed as men to hide from the crew.



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 Post subject: Re: TPOF Question #11 ~ TPOF's Women
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:31 am 
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My thoughts....

It was impressive that Esmeralda was a pirate captain and not simply another part of a crew. When Captain Bainbridge was angered that her crew was attacking his ship, that reflected the times. The old idea that a woman (even a miniature one) spelled bad luck had to be going through his mind. She not only commanded a ship, but a pirate ship. Esmeralda was smart, funny, strong, beautiful, and skilled with a sword. How could Jack resist? No way!

Ayisha was kind of a mysterious character at first. As I learned more about her throughout the book, she became a worldly person because she led such a sheltered life with her people on the island. They didn't know what it was like "out there". But, she knew to ask the old priest to conjure up a disquise for her, so not niave, simply uninformed. Armed with magical abilities and some luck, she managed to overcome those odds. Like other women in the book, she's attracted to Jack and that's not a problem. That she wanted to be with him before they got to her home was telling. She knew that once she arrived there, Ayisha would have to become (I had to look at the book again for the spelling) the princess Amenirdis. No way could she have associated with Jack under those circumstances. I liked how she persusaded her brother to leave Jack alone and not kill him. She'd grown up a lot! Also, when she was being tended to by her slave, she had an accute understanding of what it was like and treated the slave with courtesy. Of course the slave woman was surprised by that.

Marie married a man that was honest even if the pub was serving pirates. She could have easily been a "wench" but chose well in marrying a good man. Though she wasn't a "lady" like Esmeralda, she was another strong woman in this story. Her circumstances were different, but her morals were high. When Christophe assaulted her, Esmeralda didn't blame her and neither did her husband. Another man would have blamed the wife and not seen it for what it was. She married for love, but also chose a man that respected her.

Mistress Goodwright in her brief mention was comic relief. :lol:

Ayisha's mother, Queen Tiyy was a loving mother. She raised her children well. That she expected them to just pick up and be the same as when they left wasn't exactly fair, but then she didn't know what they had experienced.



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 Post subject: Re: TPOF Question #11 ~ TPOF's Women
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:14 am 
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gemini, they certainly weren't the norm and agreed, they had to pretend to be men. It took courage and conviction to fly in the face of convention, especially around pirates I would imagine!

moviemom, well thought out answer!
:cool:



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