TPOF Question 7 ~ Christophe

by A.C. Crispin

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gemini
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Re: TPOF Question 7 ~ Christophe

Unread postby gemini » Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:28 pm

I return to see we have some difference of opinions. That’s good. I like characters that are not clear cut. I hate to have very good hero’s and very bad villains. It’s nice when they all are somewhere in between, a bit like Johnny playing Jack as an antihero. After 4 pirate films we have all come to know Jack as having a few bad traits but good at heart so there was no intrigue to learning his character. It was nice to delve into the layers of the others.

We can be too skeptical about good and bad, after all they are all pirates. Nearly all the famous ones were hanged for something . That’s not to say they weren’t egotistical and charismatic while being a thief, marauder, and sometimes killer. Not an occupation for the faint of heart. I think the Captains had to be a cut above the rest of the scalleywags to keep from being voted out of their position.

Ladylinn makes a good point; while all pirates are desperate characters, Christophe was meant to be a contrast for Jack and needed to be worse than the rest of the pirates.
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Re: TPOF Question 7 ~ Christophe

Unread postby Jackslady » Sun Aug 14, 2011 5:57 am

I too was possibly a little surprised that Jack still favoured Christophe after his treatment of Esmeralda, but concluded this was true to the context of the times where in many ways it was a "man's world" (not only for pirates but also for ordinary people), and where women were viewed as second class citizens. In the UK I believe it was still legal for a man to rape his wife until the mid twentieth century (not exactly certain on this point date wise, sorry). Not that Jack is in any way a physical abuser of women, not I would imagine, would he condone it, but perhaps it was more accepted then as a general part of human behaviour.

Perhaps Ann can shed some light on this point for us?
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"Tis not an easy thing to be entirely happy, but to be kind is very easy, and that is the greatest measure of happiness"-John Wilmot, Earl of Rochester

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Re: TPOF Question 7 ~ Christophe

Unread postby ac crispin » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:20 pm

Remember, Christophe didn't really abuse Esmeralda...he just was pushy around her. Jack was so jealous of him (until he learned that Esmeralda had seen through Christophe and knew he meant to seduce her) that he probably didn't trust his own reaction to Christophe's pushiness towards Esmeralda. Remember, he didn't know how Esmeralda felt until she told him, point-blank. And from that moment on, only 1 long day passed!

Jack should have twigged re: Christophe's treatment of Marie, Steve's wife and the barmaid at The Drunken Lady. But Marie said Christophe was drunk, and all he really did was paw her a bit and tear her dress. Luckily, her big hulking hubby came home (or I'm sure Christophe would have had his way with her, whatever it took). Remember that tavern wenches were one step above prostitutes, and even though Marie was a bit different from the run of the mill "wench," Jack may have thought of her in that fashion. I'm sure Jack has tumbled his share of "tavern wenches" in his time. And Jack has been drunk often enough (!!!) so that he'd probably be only too familiar with the way drunken, horny men can act!

(Is there much doubt that Jack was drunk when he sneaked into that convent and first met Angelica?)

And remember...until Esmeralda came on the scene, Christophe was Jack's buddy, obviously currying his favor and enjoying his company and the bit of hero-worship. That would suit a narcissist just fine, to have a smart, savvy young man like Jack tagging along as his sidekick in Shipwreck Cove. (Jack had never sailed with either Borya or Christophe, and now we know why!)


-Ann
-Ann C. Crispin
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Price of Freedom
Published by Disney Editions, an imprint of Disney Book Group
Release date: May 17, 2011

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Re: TPOF Question 7 ~ Christophe

Unread postby Liz » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:58 pm

Well, this is embarrassing. :blush:

Much apologies for mixing up the female characters (Esmeralda and Marie) in this particular instance. :dunce: My memory is not what it once was. Sorry for confusing everybody, and sorry, Ann. :-/

But thanks, Ann, for the bit of background on Christophe. I feel so fortunate that we can see into the history, process and purpose for your characters.
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Re: TPOF Question 7 ~ Christophe

Unread postby nebraska » Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:48 pm

Liz wrote:Well, this is embarrassing. :blush:

Much apologies for mixing up the female characters (Esmeralda and Marie) in this particular instance. :dunce: My memory is not what it once was. Sorry for confusing everybody, and sorry, Ann. :-/

But thanks, Ann, for the bit of background on Christophe. I feel so fortunate that we can see into the history, process and purpose for your characters.

No problem with me, Liz. I found Christophe's treatment of Esmeralda very distasteful, even if it wasn't violent it was aggressive, and I thought Jack should have taken that more seriously, too.

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Re: TPOF Question 7 ~ Christophe

Unread postby moviemom » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:17 am

Better late than never!

I was trying to remember my first impressions of Christophe since it has been a while since I first read the entire book. I think that he was rather charming but I felt like there was something else going on with him.
When Jack was talking to Christophe in the jail cell, I just wanted to yell at him, "don't belive him, Jack!".
The year's no doubt, have changed me, sir. -- Sweeney Todd :sweeneysmile:

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Re: TPOF Question 7 ~ Christophe

Unread postby Liz » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:54 am

moviemom wrote:
When Jack was talking to Christophe in the jail cell, I just wanted to yell at him, "don't belive him, Jack!".

Me too!
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Re: TPOF Question 7 ~ Christophe

Unread postby bluebird » Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:51 pm

Liz wrote:
moviemom wrote:
When Jack was talking to Christophe in the jail cell, I just wanted to yell at him, "don't belive him, Jack!".

Me too!


Me, three!!
The edge … there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over. HST

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Re: TPOF Question 7 ~ Christophe

Unread postby Jackslady » Thu Aug 18, 2011 2:12 pm

Me four!

Thanks for the further details Ann....Liz, I often get things mixed up in my mind so don't worry about it! POF is long and complex book, and I confess there are areas of the story I would need to re-read again in order to answer some of the questions fully. There are a couple of threads that I didn't comment on because I didn't feel my memories of that part of the plot were strong enough!

I do like the rich tapestry of the book though and how much there is within it to consider and enjoy. :biggrin:
"Easy on the goods darlin!"
"Tis not an easy thing to be entirely happy, but to be kind is very easy, and that is the greatest measure of happiness"-John Wilmot, Earl of Rochester

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Re: TPOF Question 7 ~ Christophe

Unread postby gemini » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:39 pm

Well I am glad we got that straightened out. I thought it was the bar owners wife that was abused but when Liz said Esmerelda I thought maybe I had missed something and didn't have the book to go back to.
When I said I liked Cristophe except for his treatment of women, I meant Marie, but I just thought where Esmerelda was concerned he was just trying to beat Jack's time. I don't think Jack held it against Christophe at first, because he wasn't sure if Esmelda felt the same way until she told him.
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." Will Rogers



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Re: TPOF Question 7 ~ Christophe

Unread postby Liz » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:18 pm

gemini wrote:Well I am glad we got that straightened out. I thought it was the bar owners wife that was abused but when Liz said Esmerelda I thought maybe I had missed something and didn't have the book to go back to.
When I said I liked Cristophe except for his treatment of women, I meant Marie, but I just thought where Esmerelda was concerned he was just trying to beat Jack's time. I don't think Jack held it against Christophe at first, because he wasn't sure if Esmelda felt the same way until she told him.

Sorry about that, gemini. :-/
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.


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