On Stranger Tides Question #5 ~ Jack Shandy

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On Stranger Tides Question #5 ~ Jack Shandy

Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:25 am

Let's talk about Jack Shandy. How does his character change (or does he) as the story progresses?
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Re: On Stranger Tides Question #5 ~ Jack Shandy

Unread postby nebraska » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:05 pm

He certainly got tougher physically. And he learned a lot about coping with magic and the local customs. Although he had some street smarts early on, I think he became a lot more resourceful and possibly less gullible.

Can I say I liked him? Or am I treading into forbidden waters?

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Re: On Stranger Tides Question #5 ~ Jack Shandy

Unread postby gemini » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:57 pm

I agree with everything Nebraska mentioned. He became pretty savvy and reminded me of our favorite Capt Jack Sparrow.
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Re: On Stranger Tides Question #5 ~ Jack Shandy

Unread postby Liz » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:04 pm

He became a pirate, and a good man. But I think he was always a good man.

Nebraska, it is fine to tell us that you liked him. Thanks for asking. :cool: This is where we focus on Jack, so definitely let us know how you feel. But do steer clear of any other major characters.
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Re: On Stranger Tides Question #5 ~ Jack Shandy

Unread postby nebraska » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:50 pm

Well, I just couldn't help seeing Captain Jack Sparrow, it made it so easy to visualize the character when I saw the good captain in action. So many parallels to him as well. It will be interesting when the movie comes out to see how close the characters are and how much of the story is part of the movie script. But Shandy and Sparrow were very close for me. :heart:

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Re: On Stranger Tides Question #5 ~ Jack Shandy

Unread postby moviemom » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:44 pm

Jack Shandy is basically the same man all along in the story. He has a sense of loyalty and a moral center and tends to make the best of his situation among the pirates. I respectfully don't agree with comments that John Chandagnac/Jack Shandy is a lot like Jack Sparrow. From what I read, Captain Davies had a lot more Jack Sparrow-like traits than Jack Shandy. Jack continued through the book to try to help Miss Hurwood, who he did eventualy rescue and marry, but did not want to remain a pirate. I thought he was a pretty smart guy. If there is a parallel to anyone from PoTC, to me he's more like Will Turner.
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Re: On Stranger Tides Question #5 ~ Jack Shandy

Unread postby gemini » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:11 pm

moviemom wrote:Jack Shandy is basically the same man all along in the story. He has a sense of loyalty and a moral center and tends to make the best of his situation among the pirates. I respectfully don't agree with comments that John Chandagnac/Jack Shandy is a lot like Jack Sparrow. From what I read, Captain Davies had a lot more Jack Sparrow-like traits than Jack Shandy. Jack continued through the book to try to help Miss Hurwood, who he did eventualy rescue and marry, but did not want to remain a pirate. I thought he was a pretty smart guy. If there is a parallel to anyone from PoTC, to me he's more like Will Turner.
I am with you on the part about Jack Shandy being pretty much a one woman man, where Jack Sparrow likes them all. The parts about taking a serious liking to rum and quickly learning to love sea living sounded like a young Sparrow. He even developed a love for the boats, err I mean ships, he repaired and sailed on. He certainly had a penchant for advancing himself among the pirates and eventually leading them.
Although not exactly the same and knowing this was written before Jack Sparrow existed, I still was surpirised at the similiarities as I read. Enough so much that I thought it certainly was time they gave Tim his due in the pirate films.
Last edited by gemini on Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: On Stranger Tides Question #5 ~ Jack Shandy

Unread postby fireflydances » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:16 pm

I'm with you moviemom, you echo my sentiments exactly. As much as I liked Jack Shandy he's no Jack Sparrow. He doesn't have that wit, that reckless joy but he's not Will Turner either. For me Shandy starts off as a good but very green man, no feel for what it might mean to put oneself on the line for anything but also filled with a strong sense of justice. He begins horrified by Davies, "the pirate chief", willing to completely abandon the man, reversing course at the screaming last moment because: the pirate was about to be murdered? Amazing. A man whose compass is justice? Yes. I guess I see Shandy as a man who slowly comes into his own. The story is kind of the evolution of the guy, all those uncertainties, waffling, irritation, decisions embraced and then abandoned, all this winnowing, this kind of narrowing down assembling of what really matters and so in the end who "Jack Shandy" finds himself to be is quite different from who John Chandagnac thought he was. I found John a respectable although frankly boring man; I liked the drive of Shandy, his willingness to risk all to gain his end. I wanted that story to continue :bigwink:

Now I have to go back and read the comments since I started writing.
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Re: On Stranger Tides Question #5 ~ Jack Shandy

Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:54 pm

moviemom, we will be disussing Davies in a future question and we look forward to your thoughts on said pirate.

Shandy had elements of Jack but he was too much of an ingenue to the pirate game and to life to equate him completely. He certainly caught on quickly and maybe he could be considered a young Jack (although Ann Crispin might have a thing to say about that!). I think he remained true to himself with some detours along the way. Although he gave into the pirate life he still held true to his "good" self by eventually sticking to his plan to rescue Beth and avenge the death of his father. So did he change? Fundamentally no, but he grew into the man he was always meant to be.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -

Wow! What a ride!

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Re: On Stranger Tides Question #5 ~ Jack Shandy

Unread postby Liz » Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:05 am

I have been resisting giving my opinion on this because it kind of gets into another question. But I so thought of Will Turner....a guy who kind of fell into being a pirate.

I didn't think Shandy was anything like Captain Jack Sparrow.
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Re: On Stranger Tides Question #5 ~ Jack Shandy

Unread postby gemini » Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:02 am

Liz, you have taken the words out of my mouth. I thought of a
very good answer to this question that I know will interfere with another question that I am pretty sure is coming, so I am biting my tongue and writing my answer down and saving it for later.


Fireflydances,
I keep laughing because usually we are in agreement on many posts but I keep finding myself posting something opposite to you while we are posting at the same time. All good though as it leads to me rethinking a lot of my opinons.
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Re: On Stranger Tides Question #5 ~ Jack Shandy

Unread postby Liz » Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:28 am

gemini wrote:Liz, you have taken the words out of my mouth. I thought of a
very good answer to this question that I know will interfere with another question that I am pretty sure is coming, so I am biting my tongue and writing my answer down and saving it for later.

Good girl, gemini! :rango1:
BTW I have been using the Rango emoticon here as a thumbs up. Just want to make that clear in case someone thought I was using it in some negative or other way.



gemini wrote:Fireflydances,
I keep laughing because usually we are in agreement on many posts but I keep finding myself posting something opposite to you while we are posting at the same time. All good though as it leads to me rethinking a lot of my opinons.

That is what makes for a very good discussion.
You can't judge a book by its cover.

The only thing that matters is the ending. It's the most important part of the story.

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Re: On Stranger Tides Question #5 ~ Jack Shandy

Unread postby RamblinRebel » Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:51 am

I think more than anything else John Chandagnac lost his innocence during the course of the story, and in doing so, sort of figured out where his own moral compass was. I agree with DITHOT – he didn’t change fundamentally, but the black and white world that he once knew was turned upside down and sideways. As he gradually became aware of “good” pirates and “evil” scholars, his eyes were also opened to astonishing feats of magic. If he had originally believed in Hobbes’ theory that “all events occur in accordance with fixed laws,“ then I think by the end he must have been in the “free will” camp.

I keep coming back to this bit from the Hobbes tidbit:
"Good" and "evil" are inconstant names applied haphazardly by different men to what attracts or repels them. … Rational, enlightened self-interest makes men want to escape the state of nature by the establishment of a contract in which they surrender the right of aggression, but not that of self-defense, to an absolute sovereign, whose commands are the law, freedom being relegated to the spheres not covered by the sovereign's commands.

Certainly the Jack Shandy at the end of the story was not going to surrender his right of aggression to any sovereign, but would decide for himself right vs. wrong based on his own personal principles. (IMO, our good Captain Sparrow starts at this point. :capnjack: )

And now that I have finally figured out my answer to Question #3 :lol:, I would just like to add that I did like Jack Shandy! It was a lot of fun watching him grow into the more mature, self confident version of himself.

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Re: On Stranger Tides Question #5 ~ Jack Shandy

Unread postby moviemom » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:30 am

gemini wrote:
moviemom wrote:Jack Shandy is basically the same man all along in the story. He has a sense of loyalty and a moral center and tends to make the best of his situation among the pirates. I respectfully don't agree with comments that John Chandagnac/Jack Shandy is a lot like Jack Sparrow. From what I read, Captain Davies had a lot more Jack Sparrow-like traits than Jack Shandy. Jack continued through the book to try to help Miss Hurwood, who he did eventualy rescue and marry, but did not want to remain a pirate. I thought he was a pretty smart guy. If there is a parallel to anyone from PoTC, to me he's more like Will Turner.
I am with you on the part about Jack Shandy being pretty much a one woman man, where Jack Sparrow likes them all. The parts about taking a serious liking to rum and quickly learning to love sea living sounded like a young Sparrow. He even developed a love for the boats, err I mean ships, he repaired and sailed on. He certainly had a penchant for advancing himself among the pirates and eventually leading them.
Although not exactly the same and knowing this was written before Jack Sparrow existed, I still was surpirised at the similiarities as I read. Enough so much that I thought it certainly was time they gave Tim his due in the pirate films.

I agree. For a man that did not want to be a pirate, he certainly became a very good one.
After reading posts after mine, I will clarify my point about Shandy being "more like" Will Turner. He was a lot like Will yet not completely. Just that if we're comparing movie characters to the ones in On Stranger Tides, Will was the closest comparison.
It is nice that Tim is getting his due since there are things that are quite similar to this book in the films.
Truth be told, Jack Sparrow was entirely constructed inside the mind of Johnny Depp. :grin:
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Re: On Stranger Tides Question #5 ~ Jack Shandy

Unread postby DeppInTheHeartOfTexas » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:00 am

Liz wrote:I have been resisting giving my opinion on this because it kind of gets into another question. But I so thought of Will Turner....a guy who kind of fell into being a pirate.

I didn't think Shandy was anything like Captain Jack Sparrow.


If you're thinking it will be a comparison to the previous POTC movies, you would be correct! Watch for it in the coming days... :cool:
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming -

Wow! What a ride!


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